Trouble at Perla Marina

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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That is ideal, but it is extremely difficult to put into practice lawfully in some cases.
I can't think why it would be(?). You do need a lawyer and it takes time to actually foreclose, but most delinquent owners will pay up before it gets to that point. High late fees and strong enforcement by the HOA manager or B.O.D. tends to prevent things from ever getting to that point.
 
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XQT

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cavok

Silver​



That is ideal, but it is extremely difficult to put into practice lawfully in some cases.
I can't think why it would be(?). You do need a lawyer and it takes time to actually foreclose, but most delinquent owners will pay up before it gets to that point. High late fees and strong enforcement by the HOA manager or B.O.D. tends to prevent things from ever getting to that point.

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Whatever you do has to be under the umbrella of Dom Rep condominium law.
In conflict situations that cannot be resolved you will have to litigate.
Litigation can be very costly and a long drawn out procedure,
With no guarantees of outcome, other than paying lawyers fees for the duration.

There are many examples in the DR of property managers fraudulently stealing money.
Often the managers are expat teams of husband and wife running complexes.
What are the rules of expansion and building new units.
Rules of short term rentals, AirB&B.
Can you in effect foreclose on delinquent owners??
Nothing is easy, fast or straight forward when you have a community of many, often foreign owners who are absent much of the time.

In other countries you can place a lean on delinquent owners but can't force foreclosure.
Delinquent fines can in some cases be charged upon sale, in some cases they are not collected.

You best become knowledgeable of Dominican Condo Law and lawyers.
Everyone will ultimately make their own decisions.
The decisions of expenditure and litigation have to be voted on by the owners.

Just a small example,

Easy life and quick solutions are often a dream.
Good luck, we all need it!
And may you make wise decisions.
 
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drstock

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I can't think why it would be(?). You do need a lawyer and it takes time to actually foreclose, but most delinquent owners will pay up before it gets to that point. High late fees and strong enforcement by the HOA manager or B.O.D. tends to prevent things from ever getting to that point.
As far as I understand it condominiums are different with a standard set of laws. With gated communities it depends how they were originally set up. Some did not have the right regulatory setup, and if not it makes it difficult to do things like putting a lien on a property. My conscience would dictate that I pay my dues as I am partaking of the services, but there are way too many unscrupulous people around here who take advantage of the situation and other owners who do the right thing.

By the way I know that Perla Marina HOA have been working closely with a lawyer on all this.
 

XQT

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As far as I understand it condominiums are different with a standard set of laws. With gated communities it depends how they were originally set up. Some did not have the right regulatory setup, and if not it makes it difficult to do things like putting a lien on a property. My conscience would dictate that I pay my dues as I am partaking of the services, but there are way too many unscrupulous people around here who take advantage of the situation and other owners who do the right thing.

By the way I know that Perla Marina HOA have been working closely with a lawyer on all this
That may well be.
It shows the importance of being well informed prior to purchase.
Of course it is almost impossible to foresee all impacts of the future.

Yet communities of detached houses like Casa Linda, Seahorse Ranch and others do have shared common grounds, maintenance, security,
Roads, water, garbage collection, sewage, electricity infrastructure, possibly communal recreational venues.
So a HOA has to monitor, enforce and collect payments.
The thing mentioned about the number of allowable buildings and expansion is also very important.

If lawyers can not achieve mediation, it becomes more difficult.
Regardless, lawyers need to be paid.
Imagine owners in default payments, now there will be an additional cost assessed.
Ongoing expanses need to be covered regardless of budget deficiencies.
What is the status on special assessments to cover operating costs?

I do not know Dominican laws.
In some foreign jurisdictions special resolutions need a 3/4 majority vote, not easy to achieve.
 

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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cavok

Silver​




I can't think why it would be(?). You do need a lawyer and it takes time to actually foreclose, but most delinquent owners will pay up before it gets to that point. High late fees and strong enforcement by the HOA manager or B.O.D. tends to prevent things from ever getting to that point.

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Whatever you do has to be under the umbrella of Dom Rep condominium law.
In conflict situations that cannot be resolved you will have to litigate.
Litigation can be very costly and a long drawn out procedure,
With no guarantees of outcome, other than paying lawyers fees for the duration.
This is not a complex legal issue - you've either paid or you haven't. It is not a very costly procedure and most deadbeat owners will pay up when they receive notice to file a lien and start foreclosure proceedings.
Can you in effect foreclose on delinquent owners??
Yes, you can. Speaking from experience.
Just a small example,
I have a copy right here. I've had it for over 15 years. Read Article 18
Easy life and quick solutions are often a dream.
Good luck, we all need it!
And may you make wise decisions.
 

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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As far as I understand it condominiums are different with a standard set of laws. With gated communities it depends how they were originally set up. Some did not have the right regulatory setup, and if not it makes it difficult to do things like putting a lien on a property. My conscience would dictate that I pay my dues as I am partaking of the services, but there are way too many unscrupulous people around here who take advantage of the situation and other owners who do the right thing.

By the way I know that Perla Marina HOA have been working closely with a lawyer on all this.
The two structures are very similar - one applies to houses in a community and the other to units in a condominium. Both have bylaws, rules and regulations, annual meetings, board of directors or manager, etc.

I don't know if Perla Marina is even an official HOA(?). I get the impression that a bunch of concerned owners are just now getting together to try to solve all their problems.
 

cavok

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I do not know Dominican laws.
In some foreign jurisdictions special resolutions need a 3/4 majority vote, not easy to achieve.
Here, it depends on what you're voting on and what's specified in the bylaws. Some items only require a simple majority, some 3/4's, and some 100%.
 

Olly

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Mar 12, 2007
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The two structures are very similar - one applies to houses in a community and the other to units in a condominium. Both have bylaws, rules and regulations, annual meetings, board of directors or manager, etc.

I don't know if Perla Marina is even an official HOA(?). I get the impression that a bunch of concerned owners are just now getting together to try to solve all their problems.
Cavok, QXT
Perla Mariina has a registered official Desarollo .
 

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drstock

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The two structures are very similar - one applies to houses in a community and the other to units in a condominium. Both have bylaws, rules and regulations, annual meetings, board of directors or manager, etc.

I don't know if Perla Marina is even an official HOA(?). I get the impression that a bunch of concerned owners are just now getting together to try to solve all their problems.
They are similar, but not the same. Perla Marina does have an official HOA, but the board members of that HOA changed recently.
 

cavok

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They are similar, but not the same. Perla Marina does have an official HOA, but the board members of that HOA changed recently.
Of course, they're not the "same". No two condominiums have the same bylaws either. They do have to operate under the same condominium laws just as HOA's will have to operate under those specific laws here, too. There's many more similarities than differences.
 

XQT

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Dec 7, 2022
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This is not a complex legal issue - you've either paid or you haven't. It is not a very costly procedure and most deadbeat owners will pay up when they receive notice to file a lien and start foreclosure proceedings.

Yes, you can. Speaking from experience.

I have a copy right here. I've had it for over 15 years. Read Article 18
In that case it is very easy and
All minor problems at Perla Marina will be quickly resolved without any cost or minor legal fees.
According to your experience and knowledge, the owners worries seem to be much about nothing.
In addition there won't be any further development on the site crowding existing owners.
 

cavok

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In that case it is very easy and
All minor problems at Perla Marina will be quickly resolved without any cost or minor legal fees.
According to your experience and knowledge, the owners worries seem to be much about nothing.
In addition there won't be any further development on the site crowding existing owners.
There's nowhere near enough information to even try to make an educated guess about the additional development going on. From what's been said, that's being done by the same lawyer that created the HOA and did the initial development in the first place. That could be a very complex legal matter. Sounds like a real mess to me. I wish them luck.
 
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drstock

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Of course, they're not the "same". No two condominiums have the same bylaws either. They do have to operate under the same condominium laws just as HOA's will have to operate under those specific laws here, too. There's many more similarities than differences.
I showed my friend, who's on the board of the Perla Marina HOA, your public post and he said this:

He sounds like an American who thinks it's like back home - it's so not here.
Urbanisations like Perla didn't have an HOA from the start - they were formed later.
It's a totally different set of laws for condos and urbanisations - however condos inside Perla will the using the condo law to retain control over their buildings.
 

drstock

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In that case it is very easy and
All minor problems at Perla Marina will be quickly resolved without any cost or minor legal fees.
According to your experience and knowledge, the owners worries seem to be much about nothing.
In addition there won't be any further development on the site crowding existing owners.
The Perla Marina HOA really wish that were true! :)
 

Ecoman1949

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Playa Dorada was the canary in the coal mine for the pace and cost of uncontrolled development in the POP-Sosua corridor.

17 years ago Playa Dorada had a nice range of inexpensive AI’s with only one apartment complex. The floodgates opened about 10 years ago. POP Village was sold and is being converted to condos. Two large condos towers were built at Jack Tar Village, most bought by well heeled Dominicans. The last resort in pass the main gate on the left hand side, Azul has been converted to condos. A large two condo tower complex is being built as you come in the lower gate on the left hand side. Basically the developers are trying to fit a quart of shite into a pint bottle and don’t care about issues like water supply and overcrowding of the Plata Dorada beach.

I’m not against development and Playa Dorada did need an economic shot in the arm but what’s happening now will change the complexion of the whole area. More AI’s will be sold and changed to condos making the area less accessible to the inexpensive AI tourist seeker, the backbone of the DR tourism industry. Punta Cana will be the beneficiary.

No surprise places like Perla Marina are experiencing development issues. Sosua Ocean Village is also developing at an alarming rate. As temperature and inflation increases in North America, Europe, and the UK, and winters get shorter, the demand for AI travel to the Caribbean may drop significantly. A glut of unsaleable condos may be the end result. Grease a few palms and you can build where and what you want in the DR.
 
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Big

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Playa Dorada was the canary in the coal mine for the pace and cost of uncontrolled development in the POP-Sosua corridor.

17 years ago Playa Dorada had a nice range of inexpensive AI’s with only one apartment complex. The floodgates opened about 10 years ago. POP Village was sold and is being converted to condos. Two large condos towers were built at Jack Tar Village, most bought by well heeled Dominicans. The last resort in pass the main gate on the left hand side, Azul has been converted to condos. A large two condo tower complex is being built as you come in the lower gate on the left hand side. Basically the developers are trying to fit a quart of shite into a pint bottle and don’t care about issues like water supply and overcrowding of the Plata Dorada beach.

I’m not against development and Playa Dorada did need an economic shot in the arm but what’s happening now will change the complexion of the whole area. More AI’s will be sold and changed to condos making the area less accessible to the inexpensive AI tourist seeker, the backbone of the DR tourism industry. Punta Cana will be the beneficiary.

No surprise places like Perla Marina are experiencing development issues. Sosua Ocean Village is also developing at an alarming rate. As temperature and inflation increases in North America, Europe, and the UK, and winters get shorter, the demand for AI travel to the Caribbean may drop significantly. A glut of unsaleable condos may be the end result. Grease a few palms and you can build where and what you want in the DR.
"Temperature and inflation increasing." "Winters get shorter." yea right!!!
 

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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I showed my friend, who's on the board of the Perla Marina HOA, your public post and he said this:

He sounds like an American who thinks it's like back home - it's so not here.
Urbanisations like Perla didn't have an HOA from the start - they were formed later.
It's a totally different set of laws for condos and urbanisations - however condos inside Perla will the using the condo law to retain control over their buildings.
When I said in my post that "HOA's will have to operate under those specific laws here, I was referring to whatever HOA laws there are. It would have been clearer if I had written "under their specific laws here. The "Condominium Law" here obviously only applies to condominiums.
 
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ay dios mio! how much rubbish is being written about perla marina - seriously - it would take me weeks to reply to all the inaccurate information and opinions from people who have nooooooooooo clue at all what they are talking about -

disclosure: I am on the Perla Voluntary HOA and I own property in Perla - and we have taken a lot of time to get to the bottom of the reality of what Perla Marina is and isnt.....and the issues it is facing and why - but for clarity - this is my own PERSONAL view based on months of digging of what is happening in Perla Marina and does not represent an approved view from Perla Voluntary HOA - although it might do?

So;
1. Perla Marina was developed as an urbanisation back in the 1990s by two guys called Perdomo and Sued - you may of heard of them? - the law that would have applied at that point would have been Ley 675-44 - which was a law created in 1994 by the then dictator to control the expansion initially of the Santo Domingo urbanisation - and at that point Cabarete did not even exist. The law was widely used after 1944 by all developers as places like Cabarete and Sosua began to be 'urbanised' - and was the applicable law for ALL developments - as there was nothing else in place. It has since been updated by laws 847/09 Plan Ordenamiento Territorial Turistico (POTT) del Distrito Municipal de Cabarete, Pto Pta and Resolution 9/2012 (DPP) approving the Regalmento de Aplicacion del decreto No 847/09 - but if you are talking about an urbanisation these are pretty much in Cabarete the only two laws that apply.

2. This is NOT the same as the condominium law as one person is asserting - the Condominium Law 5038 (1958?) and 108-05 & 51-07 is/are specific to condominiums - which is why its called the condominium law - clever stuff eh? There ARE condominiums within Perla Marina that likely use the Condominium Law to protect their interests - but what THEY can do under their HOA that controls their condo - and what WE can do as the Voluntary HOA for Perla Marina are like two worlds apart. So all the stuff about it being simple just put a lien on their properties - well - hate to urinate on that point of view - but it just isn't possible - I really wish it was that simple - seriously - as it would solve a lot of issues for Perla Marina.....

3. When urbanisations such as Perla were founded - some of them - such as Sea Horse, Hispaniola and Casa Linda - registered their HOA correctly FROM THE START - and made every purchaser sign documents that confirm the purchaser was agreeing to the rules of the HOA and fees - and as a result became 'mandatory HOAs' - in these urbanisations a set of rules CAN be applied against every home owner and transferred - as long as the new owner similarly signs the document. I believe every property sold in these urbanisations HAS to be approved via the HOA - and new owners are required to require their purchasers to sign to the mandatory rules.
I think particularly Americans and Canadians are familiar with this concept as I hear this is how its done there - so they assume that its the same down here......... well........lets just say welcome to the DR.......

Sadly for Perla Marina - the original developers did NOT set up such a mandatory HOA when they created their three urbanisations - they had an addendum document that was a quasi attempt to apply terms but once the developer lost interest in the urbansiation(s) - the document was no longer enforced - and the document has no evidence of being registered with Ayuntomiento either. as it would need to be - so with no one to apply it and a broken chain of consistent application even the quasi attempt at being mandatory fell by the wayside and Perla ran for several years with no HOA at all.
Why is this significant ? well - once an urbanisation exists and properties/lots have been sold and re-sold- the ONLY way you can retrospectively get a mandatory HOA created is if EVERY single owner agrees to the change - and of course there is always one or more who will refuse......... so it become almost impossible if its not done correctly at the start of an urbanisation to retrospectively obtain a mandatory HOA status - welcome to the reality of most of the gated communities on the north coast of the Dominican Republic - so if you are thinking this only applies to Perla Marina ??? hmmmmm
The only option open to urbanisations such as Perla Marina - and in fact many many urbanisations on the north coast - was to retrospectively create what are known as Voluuntary HOAs - where basically home owners for the good of the community come together and opt to pay a monthly fee and in some cases agree to abide by a set of voluntary HOA rules.

Unlike a Mandatory HOA which has absolute control over the area defined within an urbanisation, a Voluntary HOA has to dance between what it CAN control and what it CANT control. So for instance a Voluntary HOA cannot force a resident to pay the HOA fee - although the non payers are usually quite happy to enjoy the benefits of lighting and security provided by those that do pay. their HOA fee - such is the nature of people I guess ?
I am aware that the 'I dont have to pay an hoa fee or abide by any HOA rules' residents in Perla may be also reading this - so for clarity - - - - the Voluntary HOA rules contain 'nice to have' rules that generally are aimed at improving the living environment for everybody (and yes we have people that refuse to comply with those rules) and we cant make them - but they ALSO contain rules based on Dominican Laws - which like it or not the rule breakers DO have to comply with - as does every other person living within the Dominican Republic. Rules defined by the Voluntary HOA CAN however be enforced on common areas within the urbanisation provided (as in Perlas case) the rules are registered correctly and they don't contradict a Dominiccan Law

Just as an aside though - one big plus of gated communities where the HOA Fee is voluntary - we dont have rules that regulate and add a mark up what you will pay for electricity - or water - you have a direct contract with the utility companies - we don't increase the fee - we don't force you to use only registered builders approved by the HOA - so its not all bad - and at $120 a month - I sometimes struggle to see why people wont pay - but if you live in Perla you can expect to live alongside people who expect to get something for nothing which shows a mindset of some of the community- and maybe there is a benefit to knowing everyone is contributing - even if its not voluntary ?

You could be kind to Realtors and say they dont know the difference to be able to explain it to their customers - which we get to here a lot - but hopefully as you can see there is a huge difference between a gated community based on a mandatory HOA and a gated community based on a voluntary HOA..

So......... Caveat Emptor folks !!