Trouble at Perla Marina

[JD Jones]

ay dios mio!

So......... Caveat Emptor folks !!

So, how do you feel about breaking up lots to build multiple houses on one lot? (The original subject of the thread?)

 

[cavok]

2. This is NOT the same as the condominium law as one person is asserting - the Condominium Law 5038 (1958?) and 108-05 & 51-07 is/are specific to condominiums - which is why its called the condominium law - clever stuff eh? There ARE condominiums within Perla Marina that likely use the Condominium Law to protect their interests - but what THEY can do under their HOA that controls their condo - and what WE can do as the Voluntary HOA for Perla Marina are like two worlds apart. So all the stuff about it being simple just put a lien on their properties - well - hate to urinate on that point of view - but it just isn't possible - I really wish it was that simple - seriously - as it would solve a lot of issues for Perla Marina.....



So......... Caveat Emptor folks !!

I think you're referring to me(?). Your post came right after my post #99. Go back and read it again. Also, read again post #86. Nowhere have I said that an HOA is the same as a condominium. I clearly stated that the two are different.

You say you have a voluntary HOA where the owners don't have to agree to the rules and regulations, so it comes as no surprise that you can't file a lien for unpaid fees in that case. Not a very good setup, but I guess you're stuck with it.

Definitely,...........Caveat Emptor!

 

[XQT]

ay dios mio! how much rubbish is being written about perla marina - seriously - it would take me weeks to reply to all the inaccurate information and opinions from people who have nooooooooooo clue at all what they are talking about -

disclosure: I am on the Perla Voluntary HOA and I own property in Perla - and we have taken a lot of time to get to the bottom of the reality of what Perla Marina is and isnt.....and the issues it is facing and why - but for clarity - this is my own PERSONAL view based on months of digging of what is happening in Perla Marina and does not represent an approved view from Perla Voluntary HOA - although it might do?

So;
1. Perla Marina was developed as an urbanisation back in the 1990s by two guys called Perdomo and Sued - you may of heard of them? - the law that would have applied at that point would have been Ley 675-44 - which was a law created in 1994 by the then dictator to control the expansion initially of the Santo Domingo urbanisation - and at that point Cabarete did not even exist. The law was widely used after 1944 by all developers as places like Cabarete and Sosua began to be 'urbanised' - and was the applicable law for ALL developments - as there was nothing else in place. It has since been updated by laws 847/09 Plan Ordenamiento Territorial Turistico (POTT) del Distrito Municipal de Cabarete, Pto Pta and Resolution 9/2012 (DPP) approving the Regalmento de Aplicacion del decreto No 847/09 - but if you are talking about an urbanisation these are pretty much in Cabarete the only two laws that apply.

2. This is NOT the same as the condominium law as one person is asserting - the Condominium Law 5038 (1958?) and 108-05 & 51-07 is/are specific to condominiums - which is why its called the condominium law - clever stuff eh? There ARE condominiums within Perla Marina that likely use the Condominium Law to protect their interests - but what THEY can do under their HOA that controls their condo - and what WE can do as the Voluntary HOA for Perla Marina are like two worlds apart. So all the stuff about it being simple just put a lien on their properties - well - hate to urinate on that point of view - but it just isn't possible - I really wish it was that simple - seriously - as it would solve a lot of issues for Perla Marina.....

3. When urbanisations such as Perla were founded - some of them - such as Sea Horse, Hispaniola and Casa Linda - registered their HOA correctly FROM THE START - and made every purchaser sign documents that confirm the purchaser was agreeing to the rules of the HOA and fees - and as a result became 'mandatory HOAs' - in these urbanisations a set of rules CAN be applied against every home owner and transferred - as long as the new owner similarly signs the document. I believe every property sold in these urbanisations HAS to be approved via the HOA - and new owners are required to require their purchasers to sign to the mandatory rules.
I think particularly Americans and Canadians are familiar with this concept as I hear this is how its done there - so they assume that its the same down here......... well........lets just say welcome to the DR.......

Sadly for Perla Marina - the original developers did NOT set up such a mandatory HOA when they created their three urbanisations - they had an addendum document that was a quasi attempt to apply terms but once the developer lost interest in the urbansiation(s) - the document was no longer enforced - and the document has no evidence of being registered with Ayuntomiento either. as it would need to be - so with no one to apply it and a broken chain of consistent application even the quasi attempt at being mandatory fell by the wayside and Perla ran for several years with no HOA at all.
Why is this significant ? well - once an urbanisation exists and properties/lots have been sold and re-sold- the ONLY way you can retrospectively get a mandatory HOA created is if EVERY single owner agrees to the change - and of course there is always one or more who will refuse......... so it become almost impossible if its not done correctly at the start of an urbanisation to retrospectively obtain a mandatory HOA status - welcome to the reality of most of the gated communities on the north coast of the Dominican Republic - so if you are thinking this only applies to Perla Marina ??? hmmmmm
The only option open to urbanisations such as Perla Marina - and in fact many many urbanisations on the north coast - was to retrospectively create what are known as Voluuntary HOAs - where basically home owners for the good of the community come together and opt to pay a monthly fee and in some cases agree to abide by a set of voluntary HOA rules.

Unlike a Mandatory HOA which has absolute control over the area defined within an urbanisation, a Voluntary HOA has to dance between what it CAN control and what it CANT control. So for instance a Voluntary HOA cannot force a resident to pay the HOA fee - although the non payers are usually quite happy to enjoy the benefits of lighting and security provided by those that do pay. their HOA fee - such is the nature of people I guess ?
I am aware that the 'I dont have to pay an hoa fee or abide by any HOA rules' residents in Perla may be also reading this - so for clarity - - - - the Voluntary HOA rules contain 'nice to have' rules that generally are aimed at improving the living environment for everybody (and yes we have people that refuse to comply with those rules) and we cant make them - but they ALSO contain rules based on Dominican Laws - which like it or not the rule breakers DO have to comply with - as does every other person living within the Dominican Republic. Rules defined by the Voluntary HOA CAN however be enforced on common areas within the urbanisation provided (as in Perlas case) the rules are registered correctly and they don't contradict a Dominiccan Law

Just as an aside though - one big plus of gated communities where the HOA Fee is voluntary - we dont have rules that regulate and add a mark up what you will pay for electricity - or water - you have a direct contract with the utility companies - we don't increase the fee - we don't force you to use only registered builders approved by the HOA - so its not all bad - and at $120 a month - I sometimes struggle to see why people wont pay - but if you live in Perla you can expect to live alongside people who expect to get something for nothing which shows a mindset of some of the community- and maybe there is a benefit to knowing everyone is contributing - even if its not voluntary ?

You could be kind to Realtors and say they dont know the difference to be able to explain it to their customers - which we get to here a lot - but hopefully as you can see there is a huge difference between a gated community based on a mandatory HOA and a gated community based on a voluntary HOA..

So......... Caveat Emptor folks !!

Informative post!

I did allow some sarcasm to leach into one of my posts, in regard to things being easy.

Your post clearly puts to rest the assumption that things are easy or clear cut.

I have real estate experience in EU, US and CAN.
Even in those well regulated countries things often are far from easy.
I do own a detached house in a Dominican community.

I know from experience dealing with government, municipality and neighbours nothing is ever easy or clear cut in the DR.
I try to avoid conflict and litigation whenever possible.
Winning needs a new definition.

The breaking up of lots and increasing density is another aspect of complexity.
Moving targets and new realities, as few things remain what they are.

Dealing with Dominican developers, laws, and sometimes families who are lawyers, real estate agents and developers can create
Possible conflict of interest and problems.

Buyer Beware, do your homework.
Easy life is often a dream.

 

[JD Jones]

I guess they don't want to answer my question.

 

[citizenofnowhere]

I think you're referring to me(?). Your post came right after my post #99. Go back and read it again. Also, read again post #86. Nowhere have I said that an HOA is the same as a condominium. I clearly stated that the two are different.

You say you have a voluntary HOA where the owners don't have to agree to the rules and regulations, so it comes as no surprise that you can't file a lien for unpaid fees in that case. Not a very good setup, but I guess you're stuck with it.

Definitely,...........Caveat Emptor!

wasn't being so specific - there were five pages of inaccuracies and misconceptions and that one came up a few times - had meant to correct ages ago.... but it took a while to get set up on dr1...

.. you are right about the setup though - it sucks - but like I say - with the few exceptions I listed - unless you are in a condo inside an urbanisation on the North Coast - odds are you are living in a voluntary hoa - with payment and rules that cant be enforced if they differ from dominican law - people just don't know it

.....i guess developers and realtors dont care or dont know - but one major difference is voluntary dont have a guarenteed income like mandatory does - so if sufficient people stop paying - security lighting and maintenance all have to be cut to the reduced amount of income - we have just made one set of changes and will make the necessary reductions if the trend continues - so there is a risk that a person buying in a voluntary gated community will see eg security fluctuate up and down

...would it have changed my purchase decision if i had known the hoa was voluntary ? maybe - it allows a lot of people to be truly selfish cnuts in perla

we even have one realtor who earns their living renting and selling in perla boasting the benefits of the gated community to their clients on every advert - but not paying themselves - thats what we are up against

but there are a core of good people here too - who make the ball ache of being on the voluntary hoa board worthwhile - at least for now....

....we are working on a new set of rules which will be a nasty surprise to those that are just wanting to be obstructive as the new rules will have legal teeth - so not just the hoa but other impacted residents will be empowered to take recourse against persistent offenders in perla

.....the idea that voluntary means 'we' cant do anything will come to an end...and the rules based order might not be as high as a mandatory hoa urbanisation rules but it will come and will be effective as it can be with our limitations - that being said we wont be any more able to force payment of the fee - thats just a reality of EVERY voluntary hoa

......but it all takes time to get approved registered implemented and shared with residents in perla ....then of course give people the chance to behave - - - - and then start putting those that continue to break the rules in front of the fiscal and publishing the outcome under freedom of information....

 

[citizenofnowhere]

Informative post!

I did allow some sarcasm to leach into one of my posts, in regard to things being easy.

Your post clearly puts to rest the assumption that things are easy or clear cut.

I have real estate experience in EU, US and CAN.
Even in those well regulated countries things often are far from easy.
I do own a detached house in a Dominican community.

I know from experience dealing with government, municipality and neighbours nothing is ever easy or clear cut in the DR.
I try to avoid conflict and litigation whenever possible.
Winning needs a new definition.

The breaking up of lots and increasing density is another aspect of complexity.
Moving targets and new realities, as few things remain what they are.

Dealing with Dominican developers, laws, and sometimes families who are lawyers, real estate agents and developers can create
Possible conflict of interest and problems.

Buyer Beware, do your homework.
Easy life is often a dream.

yes apologies for slotting in the sarcasm - english habit i am afraid

we are in the middle of filings re the granting of permissions and construction in perla that not only ignore 675-44 but also 847-09 - so I cant say too much other than legally there is a strong case for having the permissions revoked - what that translates to in reality on the North Coast (he says putting on his dancing shoes to skip quickly around the subject) is anybodys guess - but we will be finding out soon.....

we did try the route of negotiating but particularly one developer is of the view they get what they want - but when you are talking 10 houses on a lot designated as for one house - there isnt a lot of common ground as their interests are purely financial vs the original concept of perla marina as an oasis of nature

 

[rover]

Citizenofnowhere thank you for the clarifications. You sound determined and very composed wishing you Gods speed on a favorable outcome and conclusion.

Just curious has the press covered any of this ? Its a hell of a story and if they haven't maybe reaching out to them may help.

 

[citizenofnowhere]

So, how do you feel about breaking up lots to build multiple houses on one lot? (The original subject of the thread?)

well - there are several ways to look at this - here are just a few...

1. we have had no street water in perla for years - so everyone pretty much has had Wells put in - one house with one pool on a lot uses x anount of water - 10 houses with 10 pools uses 10x as much - so you can pretty much predict the ground water levels will be impacted - wells are already going salty in perla

2. when you build one house on a lot its possible to leave trees in place and protect nature - when you build 10 houses the trees become an inconvenience to developers - one just took out 60 trees - with permission from medioambiente so they could cram 10 houses on to a lot

3. the more houses you put on a lot the more cars arrive - so instead of the single car or two per household yiu have a min of 10 more driving what are already narrow streets - not to mention the issue with parking - only made worse by it being a social status to own the largest pickup truck possible

4. the developers actively market the properties as air bnb suitable - the issue for residents then becomes the type of people that turn up - expecting to have parties all night - not caring about the impact that has on people who live there permanently

the developers try to play down their impact of course - the one that took out 60 trees has the cheek to call themselves ecological - but if you multiply a one house lot being converted to have 10 houses and then replicate that for every empty lot - and one developer in particular is trying to buy and convert any lot in perla they can their hands on - then give it a few years and perla will be just a bunch of tiny houses in overcrowded lots - with the developers long gone.....

 

[JD Jones]

Thanks for your response.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of lots have homes built following the original "rules"?

I always thought Perla Marina was populated some years ago. Are there a lot of properties without construction?

 

[rover]

Any new developments on this ongoing saga ?

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

Any new developments on this ongoing saga ?

Probably not since Perla Marina is a thing of yesteryear. That's where Daryl Fornicatora stayed and died.

 

[citizenofnowhere]

Any new developments on this ongoing saga ?

yes - in an attempt to silence the hoa one of the developers on the receiving end of planning permissions has filed a compensation claim asserting that we aree breaching their rights to do what they please with their land on the basis that we are challenging the decision that ayuntomiento made to grant them permissions that we assert are not legal

the hoa has been granted in a separate claim permission to bring ayuntomiento to trial for issuing permissions in perla marina that do not comply with either the original urbanisation law or the latter cabarete tourism decree - there is now a 30 day period for the trial to take place

the developers initial compensation claim sought to make individuals liable - this was rejected by the judge

 

[citizenofnowhere]

Who was the original developer of Perla Marina?

the original developers of perla marina were perdomo and sued - the development that perdomo is doing is actually in compliance with the original urbanisation built on what was designated as commercial area


perdomo and sued have been supportive in providing signed documents pertaining to the original urbanisation plans which are now being considered by ayuntomiento in Santo domingo. if successful the lost plans will be reinstated - but again this all takes time...

 

[drstock]

yes - in an attempt to silence the hoa one of the developers on the receiving end of planning permissions has filed a compensation claim asserting that we aree breaching their rights to do what they please with their land on the basis that we are challenging the decision that ayuntomiento made to grant them permissions that we assert are not legal

the hoa has been granted in a separate claim permission to bring ayuntomiento to trial for issuing permissions in perla marina that do not comply with either the original urbanisation law or the latter cabarete tourism decree - there is now a 30 day period for the trial to take place

the developers initial compensation claim sought to make individuals liable - this was rejected by the judge

I certainly hope that the Perla Marina HOA are successful in their case against the local planning department. This may stop the officials from being "influenced" to allow developments that are outside legal framework, and will hopefully benefit all local communities. At the moment, it seems that anyone with enough influence can build pretty much what they like, where they like.

 

[rover]

I certainly hope that the Perla Marina HOA are successful in their case against the local planning department. This may stop the officials from being "influenced" to allow developments that are outside legal framework, and will hopefully benefit all local communities. At the moment, it seems that anyone with enough influence can build pretty much what they like, where they like.

100 % agree, hats off to you citizenofnowhere and all of the HOA members fighting the good fight.

 

[rover]

the original developers of perla marina were perdomo and sued - the development that perdomo is doing is actually in compliance with the original urbanisation built on what was designated as commercial area


perdomo and sued have been supportive in providing signed documents pertaining to the original urbanisation plans which are now being considered by ayuntomiento in Santo domingo. if successful the lost plans will be reinstated - but again this all takes time...

So does this mean someone has a copy of the original plans or will a new rendering of the original intent be submitted ?

 

[citizenofnowhere]

So does this mean someone has a copy of the original plans or will a new rendering of the original intent be submitted ?

ayuntomiento are claiming and have put in writing that they have no certified copies of the original plans - as the original urbanisation happened back in 1990 - you could be kind and say that they have been misplaced - or you could let your mind wander and imagine all kinds of things - the original developers have also not retained a copy as they are supposed to

what we do have are copies of the original plans that are uncertified and a marketing brochure created by the developers that is a match for the same uncertified plans - these are what have been submitted in santo domingo along with signed documents provided by the original developer stating that they reflect the original plans they assert were certified by ayuntomiento

what is unclear is that ayuntomiento in sosua and the new developers are stating that the original urbanisation is not certified - which is the basis for them collectively choosing to ignore the urbanisation plans from 1990 - the original developers are stating it was certified - it will be for the head office of ayuntomiento to decide whether they accept or reject the presentation we have made to have the copies re-certified and re-instated as valid original plans

however the basis of the filed legal case rests also on the fact that we have presented that ayuntomiento are issuing approvals that done even comply with the more recent planning laws that are applicable let alone the original urbanisation plans from 1990

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

That whole project needs to come down. It's a relic and an eyesore. No one has bought there in years. Properties are on the market for years now.

 

[citizenofnowhere]

That whole project needs to come down. It's a relic and an eyesore. No one has bought there in years. Properties are on the market for years now.

actually perla marina is one of the hottest locations on the North Coast - Post covid all properties that had been available were sold in a flash - some people are cashing in ans selling now as prices have sky rocketed - if you look at most other urbanisations they are South of the main road - perla is north and the proximity to the beach makes it v attractive - your observation re for sale might have been correct maybe 5 years ago but not any more.....

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

actually perla marina is one of the hottest locations on the North Coast - Post covid all properties that had been available were sold in a flash - some people are cashing in ans selling now as prices have sky rocketed - if you look at most other urbanisations they are South of the main road - perla is north and the proximity to the beach makes it v attractive - your observation re for sale might have been correct maybe 5 years ago but not any more.....

I remain teachable