UN Report: How Florida is Fueling Haiti's Arms Trafficking Crisis

[Yourmaninvegas]

This issue is not about Florida.
Florida is simply the geographical location from where they are being shipped.
Those who support gun laws should go live in 🇺🇲.
Buy their guns.
And wait for the revolution.
Even it is televised...I won't be watching.
This this thread is about one of the sources of guns that are fueling the violence in 🇭🇹.
Nothing more...nothing less.

 

[aarhus]

This issue is not about Florida.
Florida is simply the geographical location from where they are being shipped.
Those who support gun laws should go live in 🇺🇲.
Buy their guns.
And wait for the revolution.
Even it is televised...I won't be watching.
This this thread is about one of the sources of guns that are fueling the violence in 🇭🇹.
Nothing more...nothing less.

Absolutely true. The guns could be coming from anywhere. It’s organized crime bringing them in.

 

[jd426]

Absolutely true. The guns could be coming from anywhere. It’s organized crime bringing them in.

So then you AGREE ?
The Guns don't bring themselves in ..
And when the Price is Right , even Good People can be corrupted or look the other way .

maybe there is hope for Rational thinking after all .

 

[aarhus]

So then you AGREE ?
The Guns don't bring themselves in ..
And when the Price is Right , even Good People can be corrupted or look the other way .

maybe there is hope for Rational thinking after all .

When did I disagree ? It just seemed to me some where saying it was only a Haiti problem. It is also a problem for the countries where it’s coming from where organized crime are operating. When they say Fentanyl is coming into the US from China/Mexico or wherever it’s not only a US problem is it ?

 

[flyinroom]

But of course, it's somebody else's fault.

Put the issue of "fault" aside for just a moment.
Can we honestly expect Haiti, a failed state, to be able to control/stop the influx of illegal weaponry when the country from which it is being shipped appears either unable or unwilling to stop it at their end?
I mean, it is the U.S.A. that we are talking about here.
The biggest, most powerful country in the world.

 

[jd426]

When did I disagree ? It just seemed to me some where saying it was only a Haiti problem. It is also a problem for the countries where it’s coming from where organized crime are operating. When they say Fentanyl is coming into the US from China/Mexico or wherever it’s not only a US problem is it ?

I think you may be surprised who the big Illegal Arms Dealers really are ..
they are Not Bill Joe Bob from the Everglades in his Air boat , smuggling Guns to the Haitians .
these are Well organized Criminals with possible ties in our GOVT .. this is why they go undetected
Just like when they ran AUTOMATIC WEAPONS to the Cartels in Mexico .
Who was doing that one ? Same people . under the disguise of " Catching " the Criminals .
So when you Say a "U.S . Problem" who were you referring to .
not arguing , i want to understand who you think is responsible..

because when you compare it to DRUGS , I was assuming you were referring to the USERS who are driving the Demand ?
or perhaps not ?

Drugs and Guns are different things .
Drugs have Pathetic End Users . who harm themselves .
Illegal GUNS have Violent Criminals as their Users and they harm others .
I never understood the comparison.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

It is ECONOMICS 101.

And when individuals say demand drives things I am surprised at their lack of understanding of the basics.

Drugs and Guns are different products with different end users and demand.
So, in order to understand look at where the demand for drugs originate and examine where is the supply.
Then look at where the demand for guns originate and examine where is the supply.
If individuals want to make an economic comparison...then they should realize that are simply two different goods in two different markets.
The economic forces acting on those markets are exactly the same.

Where are guns coming from?
Read the articles.
If you don't believe the articles are true then make your case to dispute what is contained in them.

This issue is not about Florida.
Florida is simply the geographical location from where they are being shipped.

Is there hope for rational thought?
Depends on who is making the post.

 

[playacaribe2]

Without a functioning government and its law enforcement sharing intel with the US or other countries agencies, this will continue. There is no way possible to check every container for contraband leaving the ports outward bound from FLA or anywhere.

Haiti is nothing more than a Caribbean clone of the many countries around the globe, many in Africa, without a stable functioning government and lots of sides vying for power...............and if the guns are slowed/stopped from the US...............another actor state or private company will step in to fill the void.

Haiti IS currently a failed state, but it is not irreversible...............it will just seem that way...............for the next 5 generations or so.

One or two more dictatorships and then a civil war. By 2121 they will finally be ready........


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

Individuals write is as if the state actors in the world have their hands off of Haiti 🇭🇹
In my opinion, that is not the case.

The country of Haiti will not be able to turn around without the state actors of the world taking sides and deciding who they will support within the country and who they will not.
There are those that benefit from Haiti not having a functioning government.
And those who benefit will not give up that benefit without a fight.

Stopping guns flowing into Haiti from Florida will not solve Haiti's problems.
Especially as long as there are those who benefit from those problems...
And they have the support of people who choose to blame the people of Haiti and fail to look a bit deeper or a bit higher for who are the real bosses‼️

Go Haiti 🇭🇹

 

[CristoRey]

As my Haitian friends (yes hard to believe I know) have told me in the past...
Haiti's problems need to be solved by Haitian people on Haitian soil.
I used to agree with them but I now think Haiti being recolonized by a country like Ghana or Kenya (with global support) has a lot more potential.

 

[Big]

I don't know who has the guns in Haiti. I don't even know who the good guys are, or the bad guys. If I lived there, I would make every effort to arm myself, legally or otherwise. There is talk now of Canada coming to the rescue. They may even make a fuzzy feel-good media showing. However, there is nothing that can be done in our lifetime.

 

[flyinroom]

Individuals write is as if the state actors in the world have their hands off of Haiti 🇭🇹
In my opinion, that is not the case.

The country of Haiti will not be able to turn around without the state actors of the world taking sides and deciding who they will support within the country and who they will not.
There are those that benefit from Haiti not having a functioning government.
And those who benefit will not give up that benefit without a fight.

Stopping guns flowing into Haiti from Florida will not solve Haiti's problems.
Especially as long as there are those who benefit from those problems...
And they have the support of people who choose to blame the people of Haiti and fail to look a bit deeper or a bit higher for who are the real bosses‼️

Go Haiti 🇭🇹

It seems to me that it is nigh on impossible for outsiders to pick a side in Haiti.
There are no reliable partners on the ground.
Even if a good willed partner could be found, it would be only a matter of time before the corruption would overwhelm them.
On that basis the outside world will stay far, far away.
This isn't their first rodeo.
Burn me once shame on you.
Burn me twice shame on me.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

Like I said...

Individuals write is as if the state actors in the world have their hands off of Haiti 🇭🇹
In my opinion, that is not the case.

"The United States and the countries of the European Union are Haiti's main investors, although China has grown in importance. Haiti has also partnered with its neighbour, the Dominican Republic, to attract more FDI."

https://www.lloydsbanktrade.com/en/market-potential/haiti/investing#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20and%20the,Republic%2C%20to%20attract%20more%20FDI.

"On that basis the outside world will stay far, far away."

Are you sure about that?

UN calls for foreign intervention in Haiti as violence surges

‘Specialized support force’ urged for Caribbean state where 530 have been killed in gang-led violence so far this year

www.theguardian.com

 

[thompstr]

Put the issue of "fault" aside for just a moment.
Can we honestly expect Haiti, a failed state, to be able to control/stop the influx of illegal weaponry when the country from which it is being shipped appears either unable or unwilling to stop it at their end?
I mean, it is the U.S.A. that we are talking about here.
The biggest, most powerful country in the world.

How many Haitian in Florida might be connected shipping guns back home ?

 

[flyinroom]

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure.
Somebody is going to have to go in and break heads.
Name a country that will be willing to put boots on the ground in Haiti.
I could be wrong but...

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

Pretty sure.
Somebody is going to have to go in and break heads.
Name a country that will be willing to put boots on the ground in Haiti.
I could be wrong but...

Not my job to name the country that is willing "to put boots on the ground in Haiti".
Which by the way is the first time that you have expressed the true meaning of "the outside world will stay far, far away.".
You mean military intervention.

I am not talking about that.
I am talking about that state actors will continue to act via proxy.
If you need an example of what a proxy war looks like...take a look at the War in Ukraine.

My position is that Haiti will never be on its own.
A proxy war over economic interests is being fought in the country by state actors protecting the economic interests of individuals they wish to assist.
No proof.
This is my opinion.

 

[flyinroom]

Not my job to name the country that is willing "to put boots on the ground in Haiti".
Which by the way is the first time that you have expressed the true meaning of "the outside world will stay far, far away.".
You mean military intervention.

I am not talking about that.
I am talking about that state actors will continue to act via proxy.
If you need an example of what a proxy war looks like...take a look at the War in Ukraine.

My position is that Haiti will never be on its own.
A proxy war over economic interests is being fought in the country by state actors protecting the economic interests of individuals they wish to assist.
No proof.
This is my opinion.

Is it not a fact that at some point there will have to be some form of military intervention?
Some attempt at separating the wheat from the chaff or in plainer talk...breaking heads.
But...
What is the wheat and what is the chaff?
In Haiti...
It's anybody's guess.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

Is it not a fact that at some point there will have to be some form of military intervention?

A fact is in the present.
"At some point there will have to be" is the future
So it is not a fact.
That is a speculation.

Some attempt at separating the wheat from the chaff or in plainer talk...breaking heads.

Anyone who has read my post knows my position on this issue.
Proxy war.
Give them guns.
Let them fight it out for themselves.

But...
What is the wheat and what is the chaff?
In Haiti...
It's anybody's guess.

This will only concern the state actors who are worried about their own interests.

Is it not more important that someone one...anyone...forms a functioning government in Haiti❓
Of course it is.
Until that government goes against a powerful interests of a state actor.
Then the state actor gets rid of that government.
That is the story of Haiti 🇭🇹

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

And for those reading my posts who claim to be educated but do not understand what I write.
I say to them to get more education.
It is not always someone else's fault.
And if they were actually educated and read the history of how Haiti was formed...
They would understand that.
I am sorry if my superior intellect 🧠 bothers you so much.

 

[mountainannie]

So the guns come from the US but it’s not at all an American problem?

Guns are certainly an American problem - not that we are going to get rid of them - We seem to love our guns more than our children! But there is already a law against shipping guns to Haiti so the guns are being smuggled. I read a long while ago that the US only inspects about 10% of its incoming freight so it most certainly does not have the capacity to inspect its outgoing freight. It just seems a great deal easier for the Haitians who are unpacking the smuggled weapons to "drop a dime" on the folks who are importing... anonymous tips to ATF.... Haitians are neither innocent nor helpless in this situation. It is just So Much Easier to sit behind the keyboard and whine.