UN Report: How Florida is Fueling Haiti's Arms Trafficking Crisis

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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I think you may be surprised who the big Illegal Arms Dealers really are ..
they are Not Bill Joe Bob from the Everglades in his Air boat , smuggling Guns to the Haitians .
these are Well organized Criminals with possible ties in our GOVT .. this is why they go undetected
Just like when they ran AUTOMATIC WEAPONS to the Cartels in Mexico .
Who was doing that one ? Same people . under the disguise of " Catching " the Criminals .
So when you Say a "U.S . Problem" who were you referring to .
not arguing , i want to understand who you think is responsible..

because when you compare it to DRUGS , I was assuming you were referring to the USERS who are driving the Demand ?
or perhaps not ?

Drugs and Guns are different things .
Drugs have Pathetic End Users . who harm themselves .
Illegal GUNS have Violent Criminals as their Users and they harm others .
I never understood the comparison.
I have not heard of the gun issue in Haiti being tied to cocaine cartels - certainly that was the case under Aristide - but now - with the gangs - it seems more a question of some Big Timers who initially armed sorta private armies to help protect them and the gangs just got out of control. The remnants of the police force there now can barely protect the defacto Prime Minister. The gangs now make their money from kidnapping.

There is still some commerce going on in PauP - still have conferences at Hotel Karibe & Montana - the newspaper', Le Nouvelliste is still printing (although it stopped for a while). Cap Haitian is thriving with LaDeDa events, Jazz Concerts, etc...

But the working class is being "invited" to vacate their homes in various areas in PauP. It is more orderly now with just an envelop of bullets bullets being placed on the door steps. This is an old technique in Haiti called "dechoke" or "pulling up by their roots" - after the owners leave, the houses can be occupied by gang members and their kinfolk.

I am not unsympathetic to BBQ and the gangs...BBQ - Jimmy Cherizier - a former police officer - has publicly said that HIS gang has neither raped nor kidnapped anyone. And he has managed to consolidate at least 9 of the gangs. But "everyone" meaning the internationals and all the Twitterers who can post in many languages are content to call him a "criminal". No one bothers to include him in any sort of negotiations. He is the only Haitian that has been sanctioned by the UN. It does seem to me that if you are trying to establish some sort of order, it is just stupid not to initiate talks with the guy who controls access to the three routes out of the Capital.

 

mountainannie

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Not my job to name the country that is willing "to put boots on the ground in Haiti".
Which by the way is the first time that you have expressed the true meaning of "the outside world will stay far, far away.".
You mean military intervention.

I am not talking about that.
I am talking about that state actors will continue to act via proxy.
If you need an example of what a proxy war looks like...take a look at the War in Ukraine.

My position is that Haiti will never be on its own.
A proxy war over economic interests is being fought in the country by state actors protecting the economic interests of individuals they wish to assist.
No proof.
This is my opinion.
There certainly are plenty of Haitians who share your opinion. It helps them stay helpless.
There are Haitians who kid themselves that "we" are "after" their "natural resources" their gold, their iridium...
There are some international Marxists - mostly sitting comfortably in NY & London - who have taken up BBQ as a "revolutionary force" -- they are old supporters of Aristide and Lavalas - and have spent what money they have in importing Russian flags - and supporting the one guy who spouts the Marxist line..

Most NGOs have withdrawn. Even Medicins Sans Frontiers has closed its hospital, Haiti used to be called "the republic of NGOs" over 10,000 of them - since there is Really Big Money in helping the poor stay poor... because - well -honestly if you were in the business of getting them OUT of poverty, you would be putting yourself out of work which would be a very stupid business model.

The World Food Program still distributes - still undermining local food production - which is a form of proxy war - IMHO

Watch this movie - if you have not https://www.povertyinc.org
 

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
Jun 10, 2008
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Guns are certainly an American problem - not that we are going to get rid of them - We seem to love our guns more than our children! But there is already a law against shipping guns to Haiti so the guns are being smuggled. I read a long while ago that the US only inspects about 10% of its incoming freight so it most certainly does not have the capacity to inspect its outgoing freight. It just seems a great deal easier for the Haitians who are unpacking the smuggled weapons to "drop a dime" on the folks who are importing... anonymous tips to ATF.... Haitians are neither innocent nor helpless in this situation. It is just So Much Easier to sit behind the keyboard and whine.
I specifically meant the gun smuggling
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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There certainly are plenty of Haitians who share your opinion.
Ok
It helps them stay helpless.
I disagree.
My position is not that Haitians are helpless.
I believe there are many Haitians who would are willing to pick up a gun and confront evil.
A leader needs to emerge
And that leader needs guns.
- since there is Really Big Money in helping the poor stay poor... because - well -honestly if you were in the business of getting them OUT of poverty, you would be putting yourself out of work which would be a very stupid business model.

The World Food Program still distributes - still undermining local food production - which is a form of proxy war - IMHO

Watch this movie - if you have not https://www.povertyinc.org
True dat...
Add the World Stank (World Bank) and the International Monetary ******* (IMMF) to those participating in the proxy war and the business to keep the poor in poverty...not only in Haiti but world wide.
I am not unsympathetic to BBQ and the gangs...BBQ - Jimmy Cherizier - a former police officer - has publicly said that HIS gang has neither raped nor kidnapped anyone. And he has managed to consolidate at least 9 of the gangs. But "everyone" meaning the internationals and all the Twitterers who can post in many languages are content to call him a "criminal". No one bothers to include him in any sort of negotiations. He is the only Haitian that has been sanctioned by the UN. It does seem to me that if you are trying to establish some sort of order, it is just stupid not to initiate talks with the guy who controls access to the three routes out of the Capital.

This shows me that my premise that state actors cannot keep their hands of Haiti is valid.
 

mountainannie

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I specifically meant the gun smuggling
The US can't stop the smuggling INTO the USA - so I don't think that we have the capacity to stop the smuggling OUT of country. So much easier for the Haitians to turn in the smugglers at their end. There have been a number of arrests - as shown by the article - and a number of networks - of HAITIANS - that have been shut down.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Ok

I disagree.
My position is not that Haitians are helpless.
I believe there are many Haitians who would are willing to pick up a gun and confront evil.
A leader needs to emerge
And that leader needs guns.

True dat...
Add the World Stank (World Bank) and the International Monetary ******* (IMMF) to those participating in the proxy war and the business to keep the poor in poverty...not only in Haiti but world wide.

This shows me that my premise that state actors cannot keep their hands of Haiti is valid.
I certainly agree that there has been a global agenda to keep the poor poor
And I am sure I am not the only one on this Board who has read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
Plenty of folks in the Poverty Industry have thought that they have been helping - Not. (See the movie https://www.povertyinc.org which neatly sums up about 40 years of my troubled thinking on the subject.
Sure - Haiti is a "client" state. As are all those indebted to the IMF etc...

There IS a leader... BBQ
I don't think that there actually ARE any Haitian men who are brave enough to confront him And rape is pretty common - not just by bandits. It is not spoken of since the female is ALWAYS to blame. So I doubt that an Army of Liberated Women are going to rise up and walk down the streets arm in arm.
Haitians value education over all - they are contemptuous of people who work with their hands - of the poor ... (I am sure that you who live in the DR can relate "La gente qui andan a pie vale nada" ) so the children are educated in FRENCH - for Intellectual/artistic jobs --

Say what one may about Duvalier Pere y fils but I lived there for a year under Baby Doc and it was a tourist paradise - far more developed than the DR.

There certainly is/was enough organization on the side of the "gangs" to declare an entire week of "peylok" and shut down the entire country for week... (The IMF crew said Haiti had to cut the fuel subsidies -- because -- well - Haiti had to pay back the Loans.. and All The PetroCaribe Funds had been stolen - ditto most of the aid money - which went back into the fat salaries of the NGOS.

During the most recent earthquake on the southern peninsula - the Red Cross was bringing in bottled water - as in individual bottles - by HELICOPTER. They were NOT bringing in water purifying straws, for instance - which would have made sense. Single serve bottles of water. Que Verguenza
 

jd426

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Dec 12, 2009
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I can also take my own break from the forum. Don’t live in the DR anymore anyway. Maybe I will have a look next time I am there visiting.
Dont do that , We need all the Intelligent Posters we can get here ..
Dont let one or 2 people frustrate you .
You have a unique EUROPEAN/ American view on things, and we enjoy your posts .

We dont all have to agree on every topic to get along ..
 

drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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Those who support gun laws should go live in 🇺🇲.
In an earlier post, you said people who don't understand what you write should ask to be "educated". So I'm saying that I don't understand why you insist in putting HT in very small letters after each mention of Haiti and why you also use very small letters for something called UM {USA, perhaps). Can you explain, please?
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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In an earlier post, you said people who don't understand what you write should ask to be "educated". So I'm saying that I don't understand why you insist in putting HT in very small letters after each mention of Haiti and why you also use very small letters for something called UM {USA, perhaps).
Show me the posts where I am doing that.
Can you explain, please?
I cannot.
Because I am not doing what you accuse me of.
Perhaps you should contact the administrators of this site or check your browser and/or computer settings.
You are welcome for my assistance in this matter.

Do you you have anything to ask me about the content of my posts @drstock ?
 

keepcoming

Moderator - Living & General Stuff
May 25, 2011
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Show me the posts where I am doing that.

I cannot.
Because I am not doing what you accuse me of.
Perhaps you should contact the administrators of this site or check your browser and/or computer settings.
You are welcome for my assistance in this matter.

Do you you have anything to ask me about the content of my posts @drstock ?
Posts #29 and #49
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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Posts #29 and #49
Screen Shot 2023-03-23 at 13.29.03.png

This is how it shows up in my browser on my computer.'

How you like me now❓
 

flyinroom

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Aug 26, 2012
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In an earlier post, you said people who don't understand what you write should ask to be "educated". So I'm saying that I don't understand why you insist in putting HT in very small letters after each mention of Haiti and why you also use very small letters for something called UM {USA, perhaps). Can you explain, please?
Hah.
I had been wondering the same thing.
I did a little digging and came up with what I thought was going on.
He is using the ISO alpha codes for countries...(International Organization for Standardization)
Hey...
Shouldn't that be IOS? :unsure:
But then He used the UM when referring to the U.S. and I thought... that can't be right.
Apparently the UM is used to refer to the U.S. Minor Outlying Islands.
So don't ask me how UM came into any discussion here on the subject.
We weren't discussing the U.S. Minor Outlying Islands...were we?
Anyway,
I'm sure that Yourmaninvegas will get back to us with a clarification.

 
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flyinroom

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Aug 26, 2012
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Maybe stop posting flags after countries?
This is the kind of thing that happens when we try to get too cute with the computer.
lol. Lots of pitfalls.
It reminds me of another guy who was always into little tricks with his posts.
Wait a minute...
Pomposity is another similarity
Maybe Yourman is that guy incarnated.
Hmmm.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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Maybe stop posting flags after countries?
🇺🇲
🇺🇸
🇭🇹

Are you telling me as a moderator I cannot use the flag emojis anymore❓

Hah.
I had been wondering the same thing.
I did a little digging and came up with what I thought was going on.
He is using the ISO alpha codes for countries...(International Organization for Standardization)
Hey...
Shouldn't that be IOS? :unsure:
But then He used the UM when referring to the U.S. and I thought... that can't be right.
Apparently the UM is used to refer to the U.S. Minor Outlying Islands.
So don't ask me how UM came into any discussion here on the subject.
We weren't discussing the U.S. Minor Outlying Islands...were we?
Anyway,
There are two flag emogjis for the US. They are both very small and I cannot tell the difference. Is there a difference you detect in the two flag emogjis I posted❓
I'm sure that Yourmaninvegas will get back to us with a clarification.

Other than the fact that I am Yourmaninvegas...
Can someone explain to me why this is MY problem❓

Through this talk about coding I have become more educated.
Thank you‼️
I hope others have been also.