Waiting for Kenyans to arrive?

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
Jun 10, 2008
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The logic behind that is that the DR already has a lot of Haitians, more than most countries except Haiti itself. From the Dominican point-of-view, the UN asking the DR to intentionally accept even more Haitians even as refugees is to completely turn a blind eye that the country already has a lot of Haitians. Dominicans will not see that as fair and it does cones through as the UN/international community simply want the DR to take control of Haiti, the proberbial “echarnos ese muerto encima.”

The idea the DR is the country doing the most for Haitians given its size and ability is well ingrained in the people simply by things such as how much of the public health goes to Haitians (particularly giving birth), how many Haitians attend public schools, the large presence of of Haitians in several working fields, etc.
Economically Haiti is already like a province of the DR. Haitians with some money have a home in the DR. There is all the labor in different industries. Haiti is dependent on the DR. What about setting up a refugee camp on the Haitian side of the border ? I have actually been wondering why the situation isn’t worse in Haiti. We don’t see a famine situation. There must be something organized bringing in food and feeding people. Food from the DR probably.
 

NanSanPedro

Nickel with tin plating
Apr 12, 2019
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Boca Chica
yeshaiticanprogram.com
Economically Haiti is already like a province of the DR. Haitians with some money have a home in the DR. There is all the labor in different industries. Haiti is dependent on the DR. What about setting up a refugee camp on the Haitian side of the border ? I have actually been wondering why the situation isn’t worse in Haiti. We don’t see a famine situation. There must be something organized bringing in food and feeding people. Food from the DR probably.
The NGOs, private individuals, and the Haitian diaspora account for a large % of the GDP in Haiti. That has a lot to do with lack of famine and desparation.

I also think that because the climate is conducive to agriculture that people can just go pick bananas or get some eggs from their chickens. Admittedly most of the eggs are imported from the DR though. Not a western diet by any means but that has some very good points. No processed food.
 

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
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The NGOs, private individuals, and the Haitian diaspora account for a large % of the GDP in Haiti. That has a lot to do with lack of famine and desparation.

I also think that because the climate is conducive to agriculture that people can just go pick bananas or get some eggs from their chickens. Admittedly most of the eggs are imported from the DR though. Not a western diet by any means but that has some very good points. No processed food.
No processed foods ? You sure. I bet some cheap cereals are donated and shipped in. What about those sodas.
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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I have actually been wondering why the situation isn’t worse in Haiti. We don’t see a famine situation. There must be something organized bringing in food and feeding people. Food from the DR probably.
Just keep in mind that Haiti is what it is and its population is still growing and the typical Haitian looks fit, skinny but fit. Have you ever seen a video from a normal area in Haiti where malnutrition and hunger is obvious? Even videos that comes out of Port-au-Prince, hungry and heavily malnourished is not how I would describe the people. You hardly see the young ones with the typical large bellies due to malnutrition. I think it would take a lot for hunger and malnutrition to become obvious.
 

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
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Just keep in mind that Haiti is what it is and its population is still growing and the typical Haitian looks fit, skinny but fit. Have you ever seen a video from a normal area in Haiti where malnutrition and hunger is obvious? Even videos that comes out of Port-au-Prince, hungry and heavily malnourished is not how I would describe the people. You hardly see the young ones with the typical large bellies due to malnutrition. I think it would take a lot for hunger and malnutrition to become obvious.
It’s a bit of mystery to me. Around 10 million people and with all the problems they have. No I have not seen that type of footage
 

El Hijo de Manolo

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Dec 10, 2021
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Just keep in mind that Haiti is what it is and its population is still growing and the typical Haitian looks fit, skinny but fit. Have you ever seen a video from a normal area in Haiti where malnutrition and hunger is obvious? Even videos that comes out of Port-au-Prince, hungry and heavily malnourished is not how I would describe the people. You hardly see the young ones with the typical large bellies due to malnutrition. I think it would take a lot for hunger and malnutrition to become obvious.
Well when your palate is open to any dead or living organism thing that flies, walks or crawls, it’s kind of hard to go hungry. They don’t strike me a demographic that has bought into the organic or gluten free markets
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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You must have a slanted view because you live in Las Terrrenas. I'm guessing immigration is already working on a plan for the Haitians there.

It's getting a little ridiculous.
I am friendly telling you that my position today is your position tomorrow. I am not sure I can word it correctly. Rest assure that I know Haiti on the ground also.
 
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windeguy

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I am friendly telling you that my position today is your position tomorrow. I am not sure I can word it correctly. Rest assure that I know Haiti on the ground also.
I think you meant that Las Terrenas being overrun by Haitians having sex in the streets will be happening everywhere in the DR in the next day or two.
 
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windeguy

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The White House has confirmed that President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden will host Ruto and his wife, First Lady Rachel Ruto, for a state visit on May 23 to mark the 60th anniversary of U.S.-Kenya diplomatic relations. “The initial deployment will happen sometime around his State visit,” said Robinson, declining to give an exact date or the number of officers who will be deployed as part of the long-awaited Multinational Security Support mission.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/na...cas/haiti/article288293450.html#storylink=cpy
Those who said the project was actually fully funded seem to be wrong on that:

Since then, however, the initiative has faced one obstacle after another, from court challenges and judicial blocks in Nairobi to funding holds in Congress to the March 11 forced resignation of Haitian Prime Minister Ariel Henry amid a gang insurgency. Though the court challenges appear to have been cleared, the initiative still lacks the proper funding. Republican lawmakers in Congress have ignored a request by the State Department to release $40 million of the $100 million it has pledged to support the mission.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/na...cas/haiti/article288293450.html#storylink=cpy
100 million is still a far cry from 500 million.

The U.S., he said, has seen a number of countries volunteer personnel. But the challenge is funding. Earlier this week, the U.N. said a trust fund for the mission currently has only $18 million. “The funds were provided by Canada, by France and the United States,” said Stéphane Dujarric, spokesperson for U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres. Dujarric said that The Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Benin, Chad, Jamaica and Kenya have officially notified Guterres in writing, as requested by the U.N. Security Council, of their intent to contribute personnel to the mission.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/na...cas/haiti/article288293450.html#storylink=cpy
 

windeguy

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Others in this thread assured 500 Million USD was in place for this farce. I beg to differ on that. NO evidence exists of 500 Million USD being in place.
Not even close
 

windeguy

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Interesting, The Hattians that are in the DR don't speak French. Something remotely related perhaps.
 

Big

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Find me 10 Haitians that are fluent French speakers, and I will make you a voodoo doll out of platinum.
 
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aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
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Find me 10 Haitians that are fluent French speakers, and I will make you a voodoo doll out of platinum.
Haitians speak creole. Not French. Don’t they speak English in Kenya ? So that should be useful with their American and Canadian partners. English is probably the best option for Haitians anyway. Maybe Nan can tell us how widespread English is. Broken English.
 
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windeguy

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Haiti 's armed gangs have called for a series of demonstrations to reject the arrival, scheduled for May 26, of the multinational force to restore security in the nation, which Kenya will lead . The demonstrations are organized by the armed coalition "Vivre Ensemble" (Living Together), led by powerful former Haitian police officer Jimmy Cherisier, alias "Barbecue." Carrefour, south of Port-au-Prince, is practically paralyzed this Saturday, as it was yesterday, since the armed structures that control the area demand that the population prepare to take to the streets to demonstrate against the arrival of the police forces. To attract large crowds, bandits are forcing thousands of people to take to the streets under threat of being beaten, killed or expelled if they refuse, as happened on Friday in Fontamara, in the south of the capital; in Bel-air, in the heart of the capital, and in Canaan, at the northern entrance to Port-au-Prince, where thousands of citizens demonstrated. In the massive demonstrations, heavily armed men wearing balaclavas shouted slogans hostile to the international community and the multinational force to assist the Haitian Police , approved last October by the Security Council of the United Nations (UN).
bandas-haitianas-se-movilizan-ante-llegada-de-la-fuerza-multinacional-focus-0-0-896-504.jpg



Everyone have their popcorn ready? I am having a hard time finding any on the north coast.
 

NALs

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Economically Haiti is already like a province of the DR. Haitians with some money have a home in the DR. There is all the labor in different industries. Haiti is dependent on the DR.
The problem with the Haitian illegal immigration is its size. It’s simply too many people in a short amount of time. Regardless of the intention or if anyone decides to put a blindeye to that, it will have a negative impact and those that will feel this impact the most are the locals. The immigrants are leaving from a place that even if the DR downgrades, it will still be better than Haiti. For them it will be a gain, less but still a gain. For most Dominicans they will feel the downgrade which will be perceived as going backwards rather than forward or static. Going backwards is never seen as good.

The other issue with Haitian illegal immigration is the population size and population growth of Haiti itself. Right now it’s estimated that it has 10-11 million people and growing at a faster rate than the Dominican population (taking into account that within the DR the Haitian population is growing at a faster rate than the Dominican population, which means there will be even more Haitians in Haiti and as time goes on Haitians will becone an even larger percentage of the population of the DR, Dominicans are essentially going to be displaced in the entire island if things continue as of right now and that isn’t an if or an I believe, it ‘s what is happening.) With that reality, Haiti could never develop and it will have a large excess population that will continue to migrate to the DR as long as there is a difference between the two and the DR is the most develop of both. The only ways that flow would drop is just two: 1) intensification of DR border controls and of the illegal immigration in the DR or 2) when the DR and Haiti are on equal footing which given that Haiti isn’t going anywhere, that means degrading the DR to the levels of Haiti. Go to Port-au-Prince and see how it’s beyond places like Petionville, Pacot, etc. In many areas you literally see hovels covering huge areas, beyond what you can ever see in SD. Tell me if that is desirable? Haiti is mostly to sonething for Dominicans to aspire to and the few that do have never been there and toured a good chuck of the country. There are things such as most people are nice, etc; but no one migrates from Haiti to the DR because the Dominican people are nice which for the most part they are too. It’s like Dominicans don’t migrate ro NYC to enjoy the better weather and the more fabulous beaches.

If Haiti was in the current situation but as a smaller country, with a population of lets say 3 million, and the Haitian illegal immigrant population in the DR would be what it’s right now, not only its cheaper but it’s perfectly doable to simply let the issue run its course with no need to intensify border control or even deportations. Haiti would simply runout of much of its excess population which the DR can absorb and due to that the illegal immigrant situation would resolve on its own . In fact, Haiti running out of its excess population wil, also benefit them since the main issue for Haiti given its current level if development is that it has more people than it can maintain with acceptable living standards. But that’s not reality.

What about setting up a refugee camp on the Haitian side of the border ?
From a Dominican point-of-view it isn’t prudent to increase the population in the Haitian border region beyond its natural increase from the people that already live there. The border regions of both countries are some of the least populated areas in esch country, though the Haitian size of the horder probably has more people than the Dominican side given Haiti’s higher population density.

A few years ago many people in the Dominican business community were proposing creating the Quisqueya Plan. It consisted pf many things including creating factories along the Dominican side of the border similar to CODEVI which essentially uses mostly Haitian workers living in the Haitian side of the border. They were selling it as if that was one solution to combat the illegal immigration issue since, according to them, it would be a sort of border wall that would stop or lessen the flow.

But that is nonsense. In reality what that creates is Dominican businessmen will be able to take advantage of Dominican stability and laws regulating business (plus the protection of the Dominican government since lets say one of the Haitian gangs -they were not an issue when Quisqueya Plan was proposed) takes over one of the factories, unlike Haiti the Dominican government will quickly deploy the Dominican military to combat and remove the gangsters (until now the Haitian gangs are quickly neutralized by the Dominican military and that is a major reason why they haven’t spread to the DR… yet) and retake the factories and return them to their owners. Plus, they would benefit by taking advantage of the Haitian worjers in the sense that they would be paid a Haitian wage, which practically all Haitian wages are condiderably less than Dominican wages for every sector.

Economic development also has the condequence of incresing the population as people settlecheavily the area where most of the money is made, that’s where large cities form all over the world and the DR and Haiti are no exceptions. The reason why in Latin America there is usually one city, mostly the capitals, that are considerably larger than any other city including the second largest in the country is due to centralization imposed by the government. An increase of the Haitian population in the border beyond its natural increase in the long term, especially if Haiti continues to not develop while the DR continues to develop, the gap between one side and the other will be more stark. By creating industry in the border it will make that region better reflect the wealth of the DR and that will contrast sharply with the lack of development in the Haitian side. To put it bluntly, the pressure for Haitians to illegally immigrate to the DR will be even higher. If you want to control illegal immigration, increasing the pressure beyond what it will be is no way to control it.