What’s next for a crackdown on Haitian migrants as the Dominican Republic leader enters a new term?

windeguy

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On that same note, why only mention Haitians? If there would be any justice ALL illegal immigrants should be thrown out, even those who are living in big houses and pay to leave should be deported and hunted down just as the Haitians...
You are 100% correct. That is exactly what should happen. Deport all illegals. But, People from tourist card countries, however, will always have special treatment. It is what it is. Unfair.
And also if all haitian workers would be deported, then who would be doing the constructions for a ultralow salary? The result would be that construction work would cost at least triple what they do today. Would anyone want to buy a $1 million that used to cost $300000?
The answer is this. Give out work visas as needed. There are laws that are not enforced which should be enforced as to how many Dominicans versus foreign nationals can work on a project. Enforce those laws. No need for anything new but to work within the existing laws.
It's a paradoxal world we're living in, nobody wants "illegal aliens" in their country, but in many countries they are the ones who are the foundation of the economy and are do all the work that that legal residents don't want to do. So without them economies would be even worse.
Then the laws should be changed to allow for a better balance and provide a way to work within them. There will be no prefect solution.
And on a side note, this weekend it was supposed to not be possible to buy drinks at bars and colmados etc.. I was at a bar multiple times and even the politur, even while "working" were drinking...
So yeah..... I don't have high expectations of any "continuous change", just the same old same old..
There was no problem buying alcohol on Sunday which has zero to do with this thread.
 
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windeguy

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The DR has a large informal economy
You know I never noticed that in 20 years of living here.
Notice I present how legally things should be done. Not make excuses like stating there is an informal economy.
 

windeguy

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Two days ago he was re-elected. Imagine 4 more years with threads like this. Utter foolishness. Sad.
True. The need is to enforce the laws, prevent illegals from working and staying in the DR. All illegals.
That is not being done well at all and needs much better enforcement.
 

bob saunders

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On that same note, why only mention Haitians? If there would be any justice ALL illegal immigrants should be thrown out, even those who are living in big houses and pay to leave should be deported and hunted down just as the Haitians...

And also if all haitian workers would be deported, then who would be doing the constructions for a ultralow salary? The result would be that construction work would cost at least triple what they do today. Would anyone want to buy a $1 million that used to cost $300000?

It's a paradoxal world we're living in, nobody wants "illegal aliens" in their country, but in many countries they are the ones who are the foundation of the economy and are do all the work that that legal residents don't want to do. So without them economies would be even worse.

And on a side note, this weekend it was supposed to not be possible to buy drinks at bars and colmados etc.. I was at a bar multiple times and even the politur, even while "working" were drinking...
So yeah..... I don't have high expectations of any "continuous change", just the same old same old..
I believe if you checked around you would find Haitian construction workers get paid similar to Dominican construction workers.
 

Kricke87

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There was no problem buying alcohol on Sunday which has zero to do with this thread.
My point to include this was that if they cannot even enforce such a simple thing as NO alcohol before and during the election when even those who should be enforcing it are drinking, then I wouldn't hold my breath that they would enforce even more complex issues.
 

windeguy

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My point to include this was that if they cannot even enforce such a simple thing as NO alcohol before and during the election when even those who should be enforcing it are drinking, then I wouldn't hold my breath that they would enforce even more complex issues.
Your point was not lost. There is much room for improvement.
 

Kricke87

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I believe if you checked around you would find Haitian construction workers get paid similar to Dominican construction workers.
Nope. I've not checked lately, but I know of "maestros de construcción" (can't remember the word in English right now) that explicitly used Haitians, not because there's no Dominicans, but because they pay Haitians half or even 1/3 of what they would pay a Dominican.
 
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aarhus

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You know I never noticed that in 20 years of living here.
Notice I present how legally things should be done. Not make excuses like stating there is an informal economy.
When it is informal I am guessing they don’t need to have a Dominican cedula. When a business is registered in the TSS they would be reporting payroll and all employees would have a cedula. I am surprised after 20 years you don’t know about that.
 
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bob saunders

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Nope. I've not checked lately, but I know of "maestros de construcción" (can't remember the word in English right now) that explicitly used Haitians, not because there's no Dominicans, but because they pay Haitians half or even 1/3 of what they would pay a Dominican.
There might be a few but I know quite a few Haitian construction workers; the skilled ones get paid the same or even more than Dominicans.
 

MoJoInDR

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I am reluctant to enter this conversation. Like in other countries the problem is far more complicated than you or I make it in our simple observations and generalizations and accusations.

Please don't be reluctant to do so... That's how the bullies can prevail.

Well said... Problems... All problems... Are most certainly "...far more complicated than you or I make it in our simple observations and generalizations and accusations."

Being that I recognize the demand for Haitian workers and being that I also see Haitians truly desperate, and being that I also see Haitians taking advantage of the system I I cannot judge. And for that reason and many more, who are we to be the authorities?

Absolutely... But you left out... Being that Haitian workers (some, most) are good workers... Which is an important "...Being..." to business owners.

Any worker is only useful if they are able to do the given job within the required scope of proficiency... Proficiency is always a key factor in the hiring of a worker.

And regarding taking advantage of a system... All humans, rich, poor, educated, uneducated... Have an inherent nature to take advantage of situations...

And we need look no further than the realm of politics and politicians... Who here really believes that the current president's father made his $600-million (US) net worth by completely separating his political endeavors from his personal business goals?

There was a time in another Caribbean country that I lived in when business developers were hesitant to take their business development ideas to bankers for fear of these very bankers going behind their backs and do a similar deal themselves (particularly in the matter of real estate acquisition). And these bankers were not poor, illegal immigrant Haitians. What had happened is that banking had entered into the realm of direct investment development for its own corporate — and under-the-table personal — profit.

Since this is the norm within the environment of human society... Who really has the ground to judge anyone else... As the saying goes... He who is without personal failure can cast the first derogatory judging remark (see how I sidestepped religion there).

So where does this leave us?

It should leave us making sweet, but not too sweet as we gotta watch our health, lemonade from the lemons we've been given.
 
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MoJoInDR

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The situation is simple. Deport illegals. If you need workers give them work visas.
Give a "...well said..." where it is due.

And the above is well said.

Haitian workers are there... Figure out a proper system for utilizing them.

Come on now... If a person can make themselves a $70-million in net worth fortune... Surely this person can figure out a positive and profitable for all immigrant worker strategy/policy for the country they govern over.
 

MoJoInDR

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Because they mske up well over 80% of all illegal immigrants. The DR wouldn’t have a large illegal immigrant problem if it wasn’t for Haiti. For example, after illegal immigrants from Haiti the se ond biggest group are Venezuelans. Any sector where Venezuelans outnumber Dominican workers?

Which is really the problem...

The "...illegal..." aspect... Or the "...immigrant..." aspect?

Does the DR need immigrant Haitian workers?

If yes... Then the brightest minds of the DR should be able to figure out a working solution to the "...illegal..." aspect.

And regarding "...Any sector where Venezuelans outnumber Dominican workers?"...

Is this because of Haitian workers doing the work at wages lower than what Dominican workers would require?

If so... Then at whose feet should the blame be laid?

You claim to be an "...economist..." NALs... But you sure do seem to love leaving out the relevant parts of economic considerations.
 

MoJoInDR

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...but Haitian is a nationality/culture, not a race.
Yeh... But no... Before I wrote it I actually went and checked the definition...

Here you go...

"...prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Since windeguy is constantly on about illegal Haitian immigrants... Folks I am very sure do not include light-skinned Haitians of the well-to-do Haitian class... I'm pretty sure that there was a specific "...racial/ethic group..." of Haitians that windeguy was referring to.

If I say Afriacans are black... Have I said that there are no white Africans?

Understanding context is always important to understanding what a person might be saying... Especially in the context of "...breed like Catholics...".

Is breeding not a matter of a kind of "...racial or ethnic group..."?