What is it with North Americans (and a few others)

[marliejaneca]

I tend to agree with what some of the posters said about it being a result of todays' society, and the lack of proper manners, respect and common courtesy. I see it all around me these days, and it pretty much disgusts me. I am so thankful for parents that went that extra mile to teach me proper etiquette, put me in social situations and teach me how to handle myself properly, and to appreciate someones' kindness and generosity.

Lately, in the small town that I live, I have been noticing it a lot, so it is quite enlightening to me that this very topic is being discussed. I recently have been going out of my way (so to speak) to help someone out, no thank yous, no acknowlegement that they would be in a real mess if I hadn't helped. I take this very personally, as it is just second nature to me to try to help when I can, and to get almost laughed at by others in the town, is very discouraging.

Somedays, I feel that maybe I just won't be a giving, helpful person anymore, skip the manners, lower myself to the peoples' level that are hurting my feelings and snubbing me. Unfortunately, I would lose who I have strived to be for the last 46 years, and it would be near to impossible for me to live with myself. I have also sat down and figured it is the younger generation of residents that are behaving this way.

So that brings me to my next thought: Matilda, it would be interesting to know in what age brackets these people belong who are so rude and insensitive. The title tells all about their origins, but I would clearly think it may have a lot to do with age and life experience. Not that this is any type of excuse, but we all know that this type of behaviour is more prevalant than when we were growing up.

Marlie

 

[Adrian Bye]

Several of you seem to have an expected outcome attached to your giving (gratitude, etc).

Surely if its giving just for the sake of giving, you shouldn't anticipate anything in return?

 

[Rocky]

Several of you seem to have an expected outcome attached to your giving (gratitude, etc).

Surely if its giving just for the sake of giving, you shouldn't anticipate anything in return?

Except respect.
It is reasonable to expect that, don't you think?

 

[Musicqueen]

I don't think Matilda was talking about gratitude...but a simple phone call to cancel the appointment if they are not gonna show up...that's just common courtesy...respect for the other person's time and efforts...

 

[whirleybird]

I tend to agree with what some of the posters said about it being a result of todays' society, and the lack of proper manners, respect and common courtesy. I see it all around me these days, and it pretty much disgusts me. I am so thankful for parents that went that extra mile to teach me proper etiquette, put me in social situations and teach me how to handle myself properly, and to appreciate someones' kindness and generosity.

Lately, in the small town that I live, I have been noticing it a lot, so it is quite enlightening to me that this very topic is being discussed. I recently have been going out of my way (so to speak) to help someone out, no thank yous, no acknowlegement that they would be in a real mess if I hadn't helped. I take this very personally, as it is just second nature to me to try to help when I can, and to get almost laughed at by others in the town, is very discouraging.

Somedays, I feel that maybe I just won't be a giving, helpful person anymore, skip the manners, lower myself to the peoples' level that are hurting my feelings and snubbing me. Unfortunately, I would lose who I have strived to be for the last 46 years, and it would be near to impossible for me to live with myself. I have also sat down and figured it is the younger generation of residents that are behaving this way.

So that brings me to my next thought: Matilda, it would be interesting to know in what age brackets these people belong who are so rude and insensitive. The title tells all about their origins, but I would clearly think it may have a lot to do with age and life experience. Not that this is any type of excuse, but we all know that this type of behaviour is more prevalant than when we were growing up.

Marlie

Forgive me as I don't know exactly where you are living right now but doubt that the "attitude" varies no matter whereabouts we are. Back in my home town in the UK it was often the elderly (of which there were many in my area) who could be rude, impatient (though they should have been in no rush) and this used to bring a smile to our faces as they pushed in front in the supermarket queues etc. and would almost fight in the queue at the Post Office when drawing their pension money!!

My sons were brought up and educated in a system which still demanded discipline, good manners and an appreciation of others feelings - they may not have turned out to be scholars with "top" jobs but certainly always knew how to behave politely which made the cost worthwhile.

Surely common courtesy is something we should not be criticised for expecting as a matter of course.

 

[Matilda]

So many questions??? Thanks Chris for resizing Tyson, sorry again about making him to big, and glad there is no charge!!!!

Lambada - the person who said I was robbed was the infamous DrChrisHE. She did apologise on this forum as my mum went loco when she read it!!! Mind you she still hasn't apologised for talking about when I was shot - supposedly to the papers, and on this forum too, even though she wasn't there, and didn't see me in hospital either. And she had only been here a short time then as well so didn't really know me at all.

Moving on to naming and shaming. Not all of the people have come through this forum, and many that I have met through DR1 have become great friends and did turn up or call when they said they would. Those who didn't know who they are. One is a college student so quite young who I met once, and then he said he would call back re an apt and asked to book it, gave me the dates and never called. I think he is due back in Juan Dolio around about now, so if he does eventually get in touch I will tell him what I think. The others, I have no idea how old they are as I never got to see them!!!!!

I think the problem is that some people do get so wrapped up in their holiday that time flies as then they just don't get round to doing what they thought they would and just don't think about calling. Also thye have no idea what sort of information you can give them, and as someone said they can't believe it is free. And there are so many people who have not been here that long, and don't live in the real DR, that the information they give is one sided. Talking about hurricances and what will happen when they have never lived through one HERE. Talking about the hospitals when they haven't been inside a public hospital here. Plus there appears to be a need to scaremonger and make things worse than they are. Dana (who posts on this site) has a fab apartment - probably the best in Juan Dolio and all some of her fellow Americans could say when she moved in is that she would definitely be robbed. They hadn't been here to know that that particular apartment not only has an armed security guard but has never been robbed since it was built. Another American (sorry don't mean to bash) has heavily criticised a private school here, whilst omitting to mention that she was once a teacher there and was fired - which may of course colour her opinions somewhat.

I just think that if we are prepared to give people information we should try not to be biased and try and give all sides of the story and not just half of it, and if we have no experience in exactly how it works here then don't pretend we have.

Sorry I'm waffling on a bit now!!!!

Matilda

 

[DrChrisHE]

Matilda: I did send you a PM and didn't receive any note back. Sorry if something went astray.

As for not being there...I was with you 15 min prior to you being shot. I was in the middle of trying to calm down two of your very upset (ok--hysterical) friends, called the first and second health establishment you were sent to and had an intern friend in SPM offer to ride with you from Macorix to the Capital. This was all well intended because the reports that came into the FBG from down the street where quite ghastly and we had no idea whether anyone was with you to make the ride (which we later found out was Dra. J) but that isn't what matters. I'm sorry you felt that it was out of line. Had I been in that same situation, I would have WANTED someone to do that for me (so clearly acting as you wish to be treated, doesn't apply here.)

Having been on the receiving end of the panic with people screaming about how serious the situation (so and so is going to die; there's blood everywhere; no one wants to drive to the hospital) was and having TRIED to do something to assist, I was shocked that this info on a shooting hadn't been publicized. (For many of us at that time-newcomers--the shooting colored our entire view of the DR, SPM, and JD). The fact that it was YOU was NOT revealed at the time that all this took place 18 months ago when I posted about the event. What else can I say? I'm sorry and I've promised PUBLICLY (as in right here and now) never to speak of anything regarding you on a forum again.

This particular issue has been raise DOZENS of times within the confines of my dh's company as to why they don't want us moving out of Metro. That is something that impacts my family directly. Whether it is safe or not doesn't seem to matter if influential people insist that one's kids will be kidnapped, wife shot/raped/murdered (fill in whatever heinous crime), and house burglarized IF one moves out of the upper end areas. Of course this is all stated with well meaning intention on those who say it, but nonetheless it is said vehemently.

People must realize that community members are impacted when wrong-doings (either by disrespecting the time of a generous person OR violence towards either an ex-pat or local) occur. It's a fact. Whether someone is THERE as an eye witness should be stated. I am usually very clear about what I witness, experience, learned though reading or hearing, etc...if one reads my posts carefully. Much of the world's information is gathered via community members or persons living amongst others who are piecing together perspectives that arise from varying frames of reference. Eye witness accounts of the act of something are very important, but are also colored by the strong emotions of that event and each eyewitness will give a different account. Those who hear from multiple sources may (or may not) give an accurate account.

There have been attempts to organize parties in SPM where the OP told others (including myself) that SPM was simply far to dangerous to do this. I took her at here word but others have directly contradicted the OPs statement. Again, who has the correct perspective? As I said in another thread: There are AT LEAST three sides to every story: Yours, Mine and the Truth.

 

[BushBaby]

WoWwwww. If you edited for reasons of CLARITY ChrisHE I would hate to have tried to understand what you were saying BEFORE you made it clearer.

Apart from the apology to Matilda, what was that all about? On second thoughts, ..... perhaps I don't want to know!! Have a peaceful & relaxing day!!!! ~ Grahame.

 

[Rocky]

WoWwwww. If you edited for reasons of CLARITY ChrisHE I would hate to have tried to understand what you were saying BEFORE you made it clearer.

I second that.
I'm so lost with,

As for not being there...I was with you 15 min prior to you being shot.

that I'm wondering if Chris is saying she is the one who shot Matilda, or that she's so fast, that she got there before she left, or who knows what?

PS: Pardon me, Matilda, if any of this is bringing back old bad memories.

 

[Steve Pindar]

wow

A friend from here in the States just brought this thread to my attention. Whereas, I don't disagree with Matilda and certainly "feel her pain" about going above and beyond, only to be let down, disappointed, etc at times, I would simply like to say that my opinion is that the problem she has encountered isn't strictly a North American problem, but sadly, it's society in general. In my mission work and baseball project, I deal with people all over the World on a daily basis. The sad truth is that much of my time is spent constantly re-emailing and leaving second and third messages for people who have contacted me, asking for a an email reply/call back. Would it be great if they got back to me in a timely manner? - yep. Does common courtesy dictate that folks treat others with common decency and respect? - you betcha. Unfortunately, it's my opinion that people that act in this manner are in the minority and are becoming more scarce all the time. For this reason, I cherish the friendships and relationships I have with folks who treat me with the respect I give them. Do I treat folks who don't act in this manner poorly? - no, but I also don't spend a lot of time and energy on them either.

 

[cobraboy]

I was considering importing lightning rods to the DR.

Obviously, the market is already saturated...

 

[Matilda]

Matilda: I did send you a PM and didn't receive any note back. Sorry if something went astray.

I did reply, when I got up this morning

As for not being there...I was with you 15 min prior to you being shot.

Yes I know you were in the bar

I was in the middle of trying to calm down two of your very upset (ok--hysterical) friends, called the first and second health establishment you were sent to and had an intern friend in SPM offer to ride with you from Macorix to the Capital. This was all well intended because the reports that came into the FBG from down the street where quite ghastly and we had no idea whether anyone was with you to make the ride (which we later found out was Dra. J) but that isn't what matters.

I hope it wasn't your friend who came with me in the ambulance(!!). My husband paid 50,000 RD$ to whoever the doctor was on arrival at Plaza de la Salud in the Capital and somewhat understandably didn't ask for a receipt. We then had to pay again 3 weeks later as he had no proof he had been paid. Whilst I was obviously very grateful that my life had been saved this double charging was more than a little annoying, as was the fact that the doctor did the tracheotomy in the wrong place, permanently damaging my vocal chords. (I hasten to add this was NOT your fault!!)

What else can I say? I'm sorry and I've promised PUBLICLY (as in right here and now) never to speak of anything regarding you on a forum again.

Thank you

Eye witness accounts of the act of something are very important, but are also colored by the strong emotions of that event and each eyewitness will give a different account. Those who hear from multiple sources may (or may not) give an accurate account.

All I was trying to say as that you were not an eye witness. Not of the shooting, nor at the clinic in Juan Dolio, nor the transport to the hospital in San Pedro, nor in the hospital in San Pedro, nor in hospital in Santo Domingo. You didn't see me. Therefore whilst in part I understand why you wanted to publicize the event, I feel that those more closely involved might have been better placed to do so had they so wished

There have been attempts to organize parties in SPM where the OP told others (including myself) that SPM was simply far to dangerous to do this. I took her at here word but others have directly contradicted the OPs statement.

No idea what you are talking about.


Ok so can we now get back to the main topic of the thread, and apologies for hijacking it!!

Matilda

 

[Luperon]

I think real estate people are always gathering info and very often pose as clients. Then of course they dont show up for appointments or dont call back.

 

[Lambada]

All I was trying to say as that you were not an eye witness. Not of the shooting, nor at the clinic in Juan Dolio, nor the transport to the hospital in San Pedro, nor in the hospital in San Pedro, nor in hospital in Santo Domingo. You didn't see me. Therefore whilst in part I understand why you wanted to publicize the event, I feel that those more closely involved might have been better placed to do so had they so wished

This could almost be copied to this thread :cheeky:
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/71865-how-not-post-dr1-7.html#post607739

under the general mantle of 'don't try and make people believe you were more involved in an event than you actually were'. Good advice for everyone.

And Matilda's post could also be copied to a thread entitled 'how to use masterful tact & diplomacy'. She simply stated fact. No attitude just fact. I think we could all learn from that.

including the people who don't show up for appointments (just to get it back on topic ).

 

[DanaP]

scare tactic??

Matilda: I did send you a PM and didn't receive any note back. Sorry if something went astray.

As for not being there...I was with you 15 min prior to you being shot. I was in the middle of trying to calm down two of your very upset (ok--hysterical) friends, called the first and second health establishment you were sent to and had an intern friend in SPM offer to ride with you from Macorix to the Capital. This was all well intended because the reports that came into the FBG from down the street where quite ghastly and we had no idea whether anyone was with you to make the ride (which we later found out was Dra. J) but that isn't what matters. I'm sorry you felt that it was out of line. Had I been in that same situation, I would have WANTED someone to do that for me (so clearly acting as you wish to be treated, doesn't apply here.)

Having been on the receiving end of the panic with people screaming about how serious the situation (so and so is going to die; there's blood everywhere; no one wants to drive to the hospital) was and having TRIED to do something to assist, I was shocked that this info on a shooting hadn't been publicized. (For many of us at that time-newcomers--the shooting colored our entire view of the DR, SPM, and JD). The fact that it was YOU was NOT revealed at the time that all this took place 18 months ago when I posted about the event. What else can I say? I'm sorry and I've promised PUBLICLY (as in right here and now) never to speak of anything regarding you on a forum again.

This particular issue has been raise DOZENS of times within the confines of my dh's company as to why they don't want us moving out of Metro. That is something that impacts my family directly. Whether it is safe or not doesn't seem to matter if influential people insist that one's kids will be kidnapped, wife shot/raped/murdered (fill in whatever heinous crime), and house burglarized IF one moves out of the upper end areas. Of course this is all stated with well meaning intention on those who say it, but nonetheless it is said vehemently.

People must realize that community members are impacted when wrong-doings (either by disrespecting the time of a generous person OR violence towards either an ex-pat or local) occur. It's a fact. Whether someone is THERE as an eye witness should be stated. I am usually very clear about what I witness, experience, learned though reading or hearing, etc...if one reads my posts carefully. Much of the world's information is gathered via community members or persons living amongst others who are piecing together perspectives that arise from varying frames of reference. Eye witness accounts of the act of something are very important, but are also colored by the strong emotions of that event and each eyewitness will give a different account. Those who hear from multiple sources may (or may not) give an accurate account.

There have been attempts to organize parties in SPM where the OP told others (including myself) that SPM was simply far to dangerous to do this. I took her at here word but others have directly contradicted the OPs statement. Again, who has the correct perspective? As I said in another thread: There are AT LEAST three sides to every story: Yours, Mine and the Truth.

About Matilda's reference to all the very frightening stories this americana newbie heard upon her arrival.....the above perfectly illustrates this. Luckily i only had a few sleepless nights when I thought every motor concho that drove past was gunfire coming to rob & kill me aranoid: And I'd also like to happily report that my experience here has been lovely for the past 4 months. not perfect of course, but i'm smiling for sure!!

I understand that there is an argument being presented above, but WHY all the additional adjectives and dramatic descriptions. Please, I know life here involves being smart and exercising caution and horrible things happen here (just like in any other country i might add) but many people are able to have very full & satisfying lives here safely (i assume this includes you as well Chris or you wouldn't be here, correct?). I think this forum is SO helpful in providing information and for communicating various perspectives on DR life. During my move research I really wanted to peruse as many aspects of the life here as possible and hopefully this info was presented in an accurate & realistic light. unfortunately, after a short period of time such doomsday, descriptions began to fall on closed ears. I tend to view any extreme opinions with caution, as they are generally fueled by something else...IMHO

lastly, and a bit more on topic, it was not without the exceedingly generous help of mi amiga Matilda that I was able to find my fabulous apartment, get my son in school, meet many lovely people & enjoy many an afternoon in the garden with the monsterous Tyson gre: Thanks chica

d

 

[BushBaby]

........... As I said in another thread: There are AT LEAST three sides to every story: Yours, Mine and the Truth.

I just LOVE comments like this. By suggesting that 'the Truth' is different to 'Yours' or 'Mine' the writer admits to not telling the truth & accuses the 'other side of the argument' of being a Liar - i.e. not telling the truth!:surprised!

Interesting use of words don't you think?:ermm:

I am beginning to get the feeling that there is much more amiss here than a simple misunderstanding. The lady uses the term Dr (note this has been omitted by me above) but is NOT a medical physician, states she is not licenced to practice in the DR (after being called several times) but also intonates by such that she is licenced to practice in other places (never refuted by her) & progresses to being an 'Eye Witness' at a scene of shooting she did not witness.

The term 'Physician heal thyself' comes to mind very easily here! (It's alright 'Is MikeHunt There' - I only found enough wood for a SMALL symbolic crucifix & I can not do very much damage with that!:cheeky:!) ~ Grahame.

 

[sylindr]

really in bad taste to paint such broad strokes about a whole continent!!!! Please you have had a few bad eggs.....that is all, don't change plans have people meet you at your convenience if this his happening to you so many times a day

 

[bob saunders]

Yes, it would like saying what's with all the bad teeth on those Brits, Garlic breath on all those French and Italians...etc. But as far as not attending meetings or phoning to cancel or let people know you are going to be delayed I think this is both a product of upbringing and the computer age. Mostly I think people say to themselves, I never met this person so big deal if I don't phone I'm never going to communicate/see them again anyways. Also when raising children in North American cities children are taught by their parents, teachers, the police...etc not to trust strangers. Perhaps it is a little of all these things....or perhaps it is the over friendly(perceived) feeling - why is this person being so friendly. I don't think this is uncommon in almost any country. Dominican for example are very friendly people but trust no one except family. I hate when people don't keep their word or appointments, thus I never make a commitment I don't plan on keeping, always phone if things change. This may be my military training. Couth and Culture courses...etc.

 

[augustus]

I, also suggest, making appointments like that, in a timeframe totally, conviently to you, as not to take you too far out of the way ,of what you are doing. I am sure someone new, arriving in DR, might get sidetracked, from all the excitement. !!!!!!!!!!
I have been going there, visiting, for 5yrs now, and have yet to make any room reservations, and I,ve never been dissapointed. But i'm a little adventurous. Meanwhile, the average person, of sound mind, would be cautious , treading the ground of any new country, let alone the appearance of DR. If I were visiting my hometown, of Philadelphia, for the first time, I would be wise to spend the money, and make a reservation to stay DOWNTOWN, meaning that the people you were suppose to meet, might have been intimidated by surrounding areas and landed somewhere they felt safe ???????????????????? and the trip goes on. But, please forgive their rudeness, because when I move there ( DR ), I will need all the help I can get. Even though, I might get there a little bit late, CPT ( colored people time ) , I happen to be African American .. But, don't get mad, just make me pay.

Now, when one of my friends or associates, get mad at me, for repeating something that occured, I just look at them, and ask them, if I lied ????????????????????

 

[Matilda]

Yes, it would like saying what's with all the bad teeth on those Brits, Garlic breath on all those French and Italians...etc. But as far as not attending meetings or phoning to cancel or let people know you are going to be delayed I think this is both a product of upbringing and the computer age. Mostly I think people say to themselves, I never met this person so big deal if I don't phone I'm never going to communicate/see them again anyways. Also when raising children in North American cities children are taught by their parents, teachers, the police...etc not to trust strangers. Perhaps it is a little of all these things....or perhaps it is the over friendly(perceived) feeling - why is this person being so friendly. I don't think this is uncommon in almost any country. Dominican for example are very friendly people but trust no one except family. I hate when people don't keep their word or appointments, thus I never make a commitment I don't plan on keeping, always phone if things change. This may be my military training. Couth and Culture courses...etc.

Let me just get this straight. These are not people I approach. They are people who approach me. I need help with xyz. Could you help me please. Several emails usually later they say I am arrivimg on xyz date I will call you. Sometimes they call, some don't bother. Those who do ask to meet at a certain place and time. 90% then don't bother to turn up. They ask ME for help it is not me wandering up to people in the street.

And I am afraid in my experience it is more North Americans than any other nationality. Maybe because more of them come here.