The more i visit the city & country the less like it.

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jeb321

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Dec 12, 2008
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To judypar
I just reread my post addressed to you and see how harsh I was.  Believe me my remarks made out of anger and frustration that it seems yhat here in DR no one ever acknowledges these real issues. We hear  "be Dominican". Well those of us who are here are might be at wits end with the seeming uncaring of Dominicans about their country.  Dominicans complain and complain but no one here takes action to do anything.  Trash doesn't seem to bother you.  It is all over.  On every road and every street.  Health issues!Well it is not just about about filth here..it is about our planet too.  But it is also about dominicans feeling of entitlement..regarding everything. So before I go on another tear let me apologize to you for being uncool in my last post.  It was because the OP hit the mark as far as I was concerned.
Regards jeb
 

sanpedrogringo

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Sep 2, 2011
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To judypar
I just reread my post addressed to you and see how harsh I was.  Believe me my remarks made out of anger and frustration that it seems yhat here in DR no one ever acknowledges these real issues. We hear  "be Dominican". Well those of us who are here are might be at wits end with the seeming uncaring of Dominicans about their country.  Dominicans complain and complain but no one here takes action to do anything.  Trash doesn't seem to bother you.  It is all over.  On every road and every street.  Health issues!Well it is not just about about filth here..it is about our planet too.  But it is also about dominicans feeling of entitlement..regarding everything. So before I go on another tear let me apologize to you for being uncool in my last post.  It was because the OP hit the mark as far as I was concerned.
Regards jeb

"Dominicans feeling of entitlement?" It's their country! Not every place in the Dominican Republic is filled with garbage. You should venture out once or twice.
 

ju10prd

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To judypar
I just reread my post addressed to you and see how harsh I was.  Believe me my remarks made out of anger and frustration that it seems yhat here in DR no one ever acknowledges these real issues. We hear  "be Dominican". Well those of us who are here are might be at wits end with the seeming uncaring of Dominicans about their country.  Dominicans complain and complain but no one here takes action to do anything.  Trash doesn't seem to bother you.  It is all over.  On every road and every street.  Health issues!Well it is not just about about filth here..it is about our planet too.  But it is also about dominicans feeling of entitlement..regarding everything. So before I go on another tear let me apologize to you for being uncool in my last post.  It was because the OP hit the mark as far as I was concerned.
Regards jeb

I understands some anxiety about the trash and other issues. But for someone that lives in Santo Domingo, admittedly in the better parts, and has lived in various other places in DR, I do not see anything much different to many other countries on this planet.

Yes it annoys me intensely seeing Dominicans throw trash on the road and much more specifically after a night out drinking.

Frankly the North Coast towns are some of the dirtiest in the country from the point of view of trash collection. It all comes down the local administration.

So often I will be up early and travel down Av. Independencia in the capital and see the trash from the night before drinking strewn across the road. But in the afternoon it is gone thanks to a team of council workers. I have seen a marked difference in the National Districts I travel in the last year or so. Hey and many of the posters are coming here for the night life and partying and it is ok to join in and then gripe later.

And in the barrio where I lived before in the campo, it was exactly the same after the weekend nights but it was the Dominican people in this case....the women and kids ...that cleaned everything up within a few hours of sunrise. Dominicans are clean people in general and cleaner than many Westeners frankly who couldn't handle a life with so many challenges.

And yes some Dominicans especially young males are lazy but this does not reflect on the incredible graft their fathers put in especially in the campo nor the many workers who do put in a days shift. Ask yourself where has this come from? Seeing a different material life elsewhere? I suspect the people being referred to are those that cling on the tourist or westerner activity who are their own worst enemy for not integrating more.

I think judypr is right in her sentiments. Like it or lump it or even suffer it. It is not your country and go with the flow and hope for changes but stop the comparisons with the places you yearn to be.

I didn't want to comment on this type of thread because it is so typical of expats worldwide who dream of ideals but can't hack it.
 

jeb321

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OK. You like to read other opinions. Here's mine.

I think that Dominicans (and Haitians since I can't tell the difference) are very polite and helpful and kind and generous and family-oriented and care about things that are important to them personally.

They don't have a lot of trust and faith in the government (because of corruption) and in general will do things the easiest way, not necessarily the best way.

If there were more consequences for things like poor driving and littering, people wouldn't do them. I do not believe for a minute that people in the U.S., for example, don't ever litter. They do, but they might get fined. And the government or someone else (prisoners on work detail) cleans it up. In rural areas in the U.S., people dump garbage by the side of the road all the time.

Regarding being late, I have had friends who were consistently late and I had to decide how important their tardiness was to me. I decided I could overlook it. Overlooking it here isn't a problem for me. I'll still be on time and wait or not depending on how important the appointment is to ME.

I have trouble walking and carry a cane. I have had drivers stop in the middle of the street, get out of their cars, halt traffic coming both ways, and wait or help me cross. Motoconcho drivers frequently stop traffic for me to cross. I don't know where else in the world I would get this kind of help....certainly not in the cities of the U.S.

My only complaint is that my Spanish is too inadequate to carry on a conversation with most people I meet. Even four year olds find my Spanish lacking. I can get the perfunctory hellos and how are you's out and even inquire about their family and children but I can't actually find out what they're thinking or worrying about. I am still trying to learn but I'm not all that hopeful of my prognosis... :)

I have been in and out of the hospital a lot and have been very impressed with the proficiency and professionalism of the staff from housekeeping to nurses to doctors to admissions.

Want more? I love it here. I don't need a vacation or any time away. But then, I lived in the Washington DC metro area for 40 years... Anything is better than living among politicians, bureaucrats and diplomats.


Sorry Judy but I just cannot get what you are saying at all and your remarks re trash in US very Off the mark completely.  Wow!
Obvious to me you are way off base. Glad you love it here.  Me too except for ...........
 

jeb321

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Dec 12, 2008
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I understands some anxiety about the trash and other issues. But for someone that lives in Santo Domingo, admittedly in the better parts, and has lived in various other places in DR, I do not see anything much different to many other countries on this planet.

Yes it annoys me intensely seeing Dominicans throw trash on the road and much more specifically after a night out drinking.

Frankly the North Coast towns are some of the dirtiest in the country from the point of view of trash collection. It all comes down the local administration.

So often I will be up early and travel down Av. Independencia in the capital and see the trash from the night before drinking strewn across the road. But in the afternoon it is gone thanks to a team of council workers. I have seen a marked difference in the National Districts I travel in the last year or so. Hey and many of the posters are coming here for the night life and partying and it is ok to join in and then gripe later.

And in the barrio where I lived before in the campo, it was exactly the same after the weekend nights but it was the Dominican people in this case....the women and kids ...that cleaned everything up within a few hours of sunrise. Dominicans are clean people in general and cleaner than many Westeners frankly who couldn't handle a life with so many challenges.

And yes some Dominicans especially young males are lazy but this does not reflect on the incredible graft their fathers put in especially in the campo nor the many workers who do put in a days shift. Ask yourself where has this come from? Seeing a different material life elsewhere? I suspect the people being referred to are those that cling on the tourist or westerner activity who are their own worst enemy for not integrating more.

I think judypr is right in her sentiments. Like it or lump it or even suffer it. It is not your country and go with the flow and hope for changes but stop the comparisons with the places you yearn to be.

I didn't want to comment on this type of thread because it is so typical of expats worldwide who dream of ideals but can't hack it.


I do not recall mentioning "yearn to be" in my post.  Mentioning the true, accurate state of things here as I have seen is what I mention.  But you are right in that think of DR if all the ex pats left.  It is probably ex pats who are the only ones who can see DR with unmuddled eyes. How do you know it is not my country.  Is it my excellent language skills?
 

sanpedrogringo

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Sep 2, 2011
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I venture ipout All The Time.  Take iff your blinders.

I've been living in the country for 10 years. Various places. East-West-East again, and in between. Are there some places with garbage? Yes. The entire country? No. There is more to the Dominican Republic than Santo Domingo, Santiago, AI's, and ex-pat towns. Much more. There is not garbage all over the place. From what I have read here, Santiago has been under a major cleanup, good for them. There are parts of the Dominican Republic where you better not dare throw some garbage in front of somebody's home or business, or you're going to catch a beating. This is reality.
 

judypdr

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Jul 23, 2011
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To judypar
I just reread my post addressed to you and see how harsh I was.  Believe me my remarks made out of anger and frustration that it seems yhat here in DR no one ever acknowledges these real issues. We hear  "be Dominican". Well those of us who are here are might be at wits end with the seeming uncaring of Dominicans about their country.  Dominicans complain and complain but no one here takes action to do anything.  Trash doesn't seem to bother you.  It is all over.  On every road and every street.  Health issues!Well it is not just about about filth here..it is about our planet too.  But it is also about dominicans feeling of entitlement..regarding everything. So before I go on another tear let me apologize to you for being uncool in my last post.  It was because the OP hit the mark as far as I was concerned.
Regards jeb

i had already decided to let your first post go without a reply...yes, it was harsh, but I can take it. If I couldn't, I wouldn't post at all, especially my opinions. I think I'm entitled to them, but others may well not agree so I have to be prepared for criticism. Thanks for your 'mea culpa' but it wasn't necessary :)
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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are we getting anywhere here ????

can we all agree there's trash.... yes?

how much of it there is and how much it bothers a person seems irrelevant to the discussion.

same with punctuality...
I have learned to build in 'lead times'....
I know to whom to say what time to.... (read that a couple of times !!!)

The Tardy Boys get told different times

BTW, I do that in Philadelphia too...to some guests... fudge it a bit

The difference between Toronto, London ON and Philadelphia are stunning, regarding when people actually arrive
for a 7pm dinner or 5pm cocktails...
Just societal norms... local habits... to which visitors and newcomers must adapt.

I was one ....
 

ju10prd

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are we getting anywhere here ????

can we all agree there's trash.... yes?

how much of it there is and how much it bothers a person seems irrelevant to the discussion.

same with punctuality...
I have learned to build in 'lead times'....
I know to whom to say what time to.... (read that a couple of times !!!)

The Tardy Boys get told different times

BTW, I do that in Philadelphia too...to some guests... fudge it a bit

The difference between Toronto, London ON and Philadelphia are stunning, regarding when people actually arrive
for a 7pm dinner or 5pm cocktails...
Just societal norms... local habits... to which visitors and newcomers must adapt.

I was one ....

You have to have a glass ball to predict the time you get to an appointment in Santo Domingo.

I had a business meeting in Naco the other evening just off Lincoln. Decided to go early from Miramar. Along the Malecon and up Lincoln went so quick...maybe ten minutes. But then another 45 minutes later I had travelled the last half mile to the meeting venue. One of my co-meeting attendees was coming from San Cristobel so he was even later and that via 27th.

Forget being timely in SD. Go early and you could still be late. Everybody has to be flexible.
 

judypdr

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Jul 23, 2011
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are we getting anywhere here ????

....

Not sure there is anywhere to go. The original poster is entitled to his opinion, but for some of us who live here year-round, day-in-day-out, 24/7, there's not much to be gained in pointing out the obvious. My comment is "like it or leave it," but don't expect to change it.

I also get bothered whenever anyone generalizes about a country or culture.

And finally, whoever (Jed(something) said I was way off about the trash in the US never lived in or visited the South...or for that matter, the inner cities of DC or New York, Chicago, LA, etc.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Delving deeper here....

I can say this from experience...
Age makes one less patient about some things.... irritable to a point.... less tolerance.

I find small things annoy me more....

I am able somehow, to let the Dominican mentality slide....my wife, not so much

It differs person to person , it seems.

But cranky old men can be a problem.....if I knew one:mad:
 

keepcoming

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May 25, 2011
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The OP stated his opinions/observations. Something's such as being tardy, garbage (well that is one true point OP made), etc...affect each person differently. Yes it is frustrating to visit and live here at times. But you learn to work with it. As far as Dominican, Haitian people being not friendly, this I disagree with it. They are actually many times where they are too friendly.

Absolutely agree with WW about age...as I age I know I have less tolerance. So I adjust and try to avoid some situations that I know will totally unnerve me. It is funny though most people grow to love it here as they continue to visit. After each visit they learn a bit more and learn to adjust. And then there are some you have to question to why they even come.

To the OP even returning Dominicans are appalled by the garbage. Heck even some have some of the same complaints you do. But they know it is what it is and still love it even though they complain. In a way the negatives is what makes the DR what it is. But there is so much more to the DR than the negative. Sorry that you did not enjoy yourself.
 

jeb321

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Dec 12, 2008
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 I have experienced the "inner cities" in US.  I am a born Brooklynite who not only knows the city he was born in but also his native country very very well. I know of what I speak. I know the problems in inner cities and I will not get into any kind of thesis discussion with you.  But for so many people in these inner cities etc (except perhaps the drug addled) they are Not throwing their trash around. There are consequences in cities and countries around the world for bad behavior.  Do not assume that because you are so tolerant of the muck around you that others should not have the right to bring some attention back to this health risk.
 

ltsnyder

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......the OP is right about some of the complaints.....and to try to change people is hopeless....I would recommend a change of Islands... maybe Hawaii...and to compare the DR to Africa is a laugh, I have been to Africa, no comparison... you would last less than one day in Nigeria...sorry to be harsh but is the truth.........
</br> Please, Africa is a big place, it has similar issues, the benefit of the DR is that it is close to and aligned with US business and tourism.








The quoted comment is a typical "it happens all over", few decide to stay. Employment is always hard to find near the equator.
 

sanpedrogringo

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Sep 2, 2011
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 I have experienced the "inner cities" in US.  I am a born Brooklynite who not only knows the city he was born in but also his native country very very well. I know of what I speak. I know the problems in inner cities and I will not get into any kind of thesis discussion with you.  But for so many people in these inner cities etc (except perhaps the drug addled) they are Not throwing their trash around. There are consequences in cities and countries around the world for bad behavior.  Do not assume that because you are so tolerant of the muck around you that others should not have the right to bring some attention back to this health risk.

Is that Brooklyn, as in Brooklyn, New York?
 

wrecksum

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Sep 27, 2010
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Hola,
at the beginning I would like to tell you, i was thinking a lot about: "should i write this post or not?"
I decided YES, but still not sure if that was a good decission.

I'm not expat living in DR, i just visited the country and the city several times in last months and want to share my observations & experiences.

I'm disappointed, perhaps I was from the beginning too naive?
I was thinking "it's a poor country, but people are nice, helpfull, open"

IMPORTANT: To all my thesis here apply for MOST of the people in DR. Not for ALL. There are no general/100% rules which apply to all people in any country. It's about the trend. Even if i write "All Dominican" i mean "most" :)


1. In DR nobody is respecting appointments/agreements and your time.
Coming one hour later or not coming at all is usual in DR. You can not rely on anything. People don't even inform you, that they come later or don't come. All the simplest things which can be easily achieved in a good organized country takes sooo much time and effort in DR. On both sides: privat (friends & family) and on business/government. Dominicans don't respect you, agreements and your time. A kind of well learned helplessness.

2. Every white is a millionaire.
It doesn't matter where you are, what you buy, when they see a white person, it means automatically: "he is rich" so lets f**k him. He came to this country to serve as ATM. I'm European but come from not so rich country (Poland). Even in rich european countries there are people who have to survive for several hundred euros per month. If Dominicans see white people, the prices double or triple. Everyone tries to cheat on you.

3. DR is dirty
It really doesn't cost any money to not throw away the garbage on the street in front of your house.
Do the Dominicans like to live within this garbage? They feel good? My mom was making jokes in Santo Domingo seeing on many cars "Christo vienne". She said: "yes, Jesus will come and first clean the streets here. You need for sure act of god to achieve that"

4. Plastic bag madness.
In every store (supermarket) you get thousands of plastic bags. Even a single bread will be packed in two plastic bags.
Why? What for? Additionall source of garbage. In Europe most of the people take their own bags from home going shopping or buy the bags in the shops.

5. Dominicans are not helpfull
And it's not only about me, stupid white gringo. It's about how treat Dominicans each other (family & friends). Sacrifice for someone, help someone, think about someone is very rare. They simple don't care if they need to do a little effort. Passive and/or egoistic approach is very common.

6. Europeans (whites) are cold, distanced and cannot enjoy the life.
One of the most popular stereotypes in DR.
I would say in average polish people are less cold, less distanced than Dominicans and ARE HELPFULL. In my culture the HOSPITALITY is a big thing.
This is for me a basic to enjoy the life.

I could write more and longer :-/ Giving many other examples.

So, for me DR is poor because it is mentally poor. With such state of mind the country never will be nice place to live. I think in 1989 as my country (Poland) sent back Russians and Red Army, liberated after 45 years of communism occupation the GDP per capita was even higher in DR than in Poland (DR didn't have communism like Cuba). I've checked now GDP per capita and it's almost double higher in Poland than in DR. I know this comparision is not fair. There are thousand factors for economical development, but in my opinion is also connected to the "state of mind".


As I wrote at the beginning. Beeing naive i was thinking "poor but good, helpful people with a great hospitality"
Unfortunately I was wrong.
Belive me or not, but my attitude was very positive and sympathy to the country was very high at the begininng.

I'm disappointent :-(


best regards
topek



Your observations are spot on.A nice concise account of how this place is.
It will not change in any way in the next several decades so I agree.
If it is not for you then it's pointless to try to make it work for you.
I wish you well in your travels..
 

nas

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Jul 1, 2009
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Another thing I don't like here is that patriotism. Always that bloody flag and orgullo dominicano based on what achievements?









Patriotism is to love your motherland; A person does not need a reason to love his place of birth, much less to explain it to anyone.
If it was not instill in you to love and to respect your country's flag, I would not be able to explain that to you either. Hence millions of morons throughout the world whose think it is okay to burn their countries' flag. But this probably okay for you.. :chinese:
 
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