What would it take to curtail corruption......

[MommC]

At least once or twice a week there is an article in the news about this country or that organization giving millions of $$ or million of pesos to the Mejia gov't for one reason or another. Where has all this money gone?????
It certainly doesn't seem to have gone for the purposes for which it was given.
Why do the people not insist on seeing the results of the projects these funds are "pegged" for by the agencies that have provided the fund?
It was interesting when we were last there. There was a new bridge being built in San Pedro . Funding had been provided by an Italian "grant". Rather than just turning over the money the Italians instead sent "engineers" (or some such) to "oversee" the project while hiring local construction firms to do the actual work. We were told by one of the Italian contingent that knowing how corrupt the gov't was the organization they worked for wanted to be sure the people of the Republic would actually benefit from the moneys being given so they stipulated as a condition of the gift that the actual dispersal of the funds and supervision of the project be done by Italians chosen by them. That way the bridge would be built to current standards (no cost cutting, substandard work), the people would see a timely completed project, and the funds would be dispersed for the purpose for which they'd been granted.
Perhaps pressure could be put on all gov't, aid agencies etc to write such a stipulation into their "grants". This would certainly lessen the chances of the majority of the funds making it's way into "priviledged, insider" pockets! All it would take would be the organization of "lobby" groups by the people!

 

[El Jefe]

Rocco,

Your arguments would work in a country that has educated voters and honest politicians. Unfortunately that is not the case in the DR. you speak of the power of one...that worked before..lights, water, etc were abundunt in the cities, corruption was still prevalent but cheaper...oh, the Power of One....Trujillo.

 

[Andy B]

Someone once said that the US needed a good, 5 cents cigar. My father used to refer to the President of the College he worked for as "a benevolent dictator." Accordingly, to curtail corruption and a lot of other problems, what the DR needs (besides a good, 5 pesos cigar) is "a benevolent dictator" as the present system of government just doesn't work.

 

[JOHNNY HONDA]

Mommc
your point of forein govts or groups controlling funds instead of giving monies directly to Hippo and cronies or whoomever else wields the scepter of power is probably the most realistic and logical way to start curbing corruption.How can foreiners/residents help?Very simple if everyone writes their govt,has people in their country do the same,if enough people show that they are concerned where these billions of dollars are going,maybe changes will happen but its not overnight,in reference of the power of one it works.A quote from Arlo Guthries Alices Restaurant (if one person walks into the draft board office sings a barr of this song and walks out they will think hes crazy,if 2 people do it theyll think theyre both gay and wont take either one of them,if 3 people do it theyll think its an organization and if 4 people do it theyll think its an organization,1 begins the movement but you only succeed with many

 

[Jersey Devil]

Now we have fallen into the trap of laying blame. You are too intelligent to take this easy road. It?s all Hipolito?s fault, come on, can?t we accept blame for anything? The Japanese & the Americans have 1 major difference in regard to business: The Americans are fixated on WHO is to blame for the problem? ? The Japanese, Who will find the solution to the problem? Which philosophy do you think would yield more results???

Is that why we have seen so much growth in the Japanese economy over the last 12 years?

 

[Tony C]

TonyC - Wealth and corruption inversely related? I'm not sure I agree (Italy, for example, is wealthy and corrupt). But, nonetheless, you have a "chicken and the egg" problem. How does a society become wealthy if its corrupt and how do you end corruption if the society is not wealthy?

Italy is a perfect example of my theory. Italy's population is in way as wealthy as those of Germany, Switzerland, Lux., or the UK. Their are parts of Italy that are quite poor. Ditto Spain and Portugal. These 3 countries have the Highest rate of Corruption in Western Europe.

Tony C.

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Why Not Fidel?

Someone once said that the US needed a good, 5 cents cigar. My father used to refer to the President of the College he worked for as "a benevolent dictator." Accordingly, to curtail corruption and a lot of other problems, what the DR needs (besides a good, 5 pesos cigar) is "a benevolent dictator" as the present system of government just doesn't work.

Trujillo? Why not Fidel, then? Noriega? Straussner? Somoza? Stalin? Mussolini? Mao? Valverde? Be careful what you wish for!

Now, let's see some good examples of benevolent dictators posted here. I'm waiting.

 

[Andy B]

None of those you mentioned were very benevolent. Think of some of the kings and leaders throughout history that were good to and for their people. THAT'S the kind of benevolency I'm talking about.

I only mentioned this form of rule because the present form of government has not worked since it's inception after Truillo, some 40 years ago and the premise of this thread was how to reduce the present levels of corruption. And as much as I know Truillo was an evil monster, had he been more humane, I think he would have gone down in the DR's history as one of the greatest rulers it's ever seen. Think of the growth and progress this country made under his rule. And before anyone thinks I am a supporter of this man, understand I mention this only as an example of an alternative government to the one we have now that is rotten to the core.

 

[mondongo]

The only benevolent dictators are those still plotting to usurp power....no such thing.....i'll see the tooth fairy before that happens.

 

[MommC]

I'll second that motion!!
But I did like the idea of everyone writing to their gov't re: Aid to the DR!!

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Aid to the DR

Aid to the DR government? Why? So they'll have more to steal? Any aid to the DR government should be based on "progress payments" with lots of strings attached. Blind aid will be stolen.

We could have a whole different thread about whether the international banks and IMF expect the money to be stolen and why the banks lend it anyway.

The DR government is a child and should be treated like one.

Nobody got my joke about the dictators "Mao" and "Valverde". Perhaps it was a little too localized to the DR.

 

[MommC]

Porfio.....Re Aid to DR

go back and read the post about the bridge being built (should be finished now) in San Pedro.
This is the ONLY way Aid should be dispensed in the DR.

 

[Rocco]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this issue - This was my 1st time on this board & for my primary experience I must say that this was a lively discussion that had many view points that were fervently expressed and not a single personal attack in the bunch. My view was diametrically apposed to the group and I found this an excellent forum in which to express my point of view without the distraction of the dullards that you find in so many forums. Bravo! Keep up this kind of forum and you people will solve all of your social woos with the dignity & respect that I experienced here. Bravo! Best of Luck!
Rocco

 

[MommC]

Nice to see Fausto Adames win the award!

Now if only more journalists would follow his lead to "expose" gov't corruption and keep it in the headlines of the news maybe more ppl in the DR. would take an interest in doing something about it!

Glad you have enjoyed the discussion Rocco......Keep it coming gang.....

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Thanks, Rocco. Look forward to you're being an "agent provacatur" here again in the future.

MommC - Your bridge in San Pedro was an influence for my post.

 

[Rocco]

Porfio_Rubirosa this was MY pleasure, Sir. Nicely Done. . .

 

[MommC]

Ooops...Sorry Profio.....

musta had my eyes closed when I read your reply!!
I thought you meant no aid at all to the DR......
Now if only every aid granting body would do it in this manner there would be great progress in the Dr, and a lot of other countries world wide!!

 

[Pepe]

Average Joe's opinion.

As far as I can see then... corruption is ingrained in the capitalist system. Or would you say there?s no corruption in the US, Germany or Japan?

Capitalism is a system of excesses. Excess money is trickled down to the masses in the form of jobs charity and welfare. I am sure as hell international banks know that most of those moneys are going to end up in a few individuals? pockets, but hey that?s a method for creating wealth in a society.
The idea is that that excess wealth is going to be put to work somehow in the future.

In a booming US economy people has excess money to invest, which is a method for creating more wealth (don?t look now!). Money managers run out of places to invest locally and then resort to send those funds overseas, which is the first leg of the trip for excess US money. So the trickle extends to other lands in the form of junk bonds where more often than not, US investors are bound to come out short.
But, alas! the money has changed hands, created wealth and promoted capitalism.

There are methods for controlling corruption in a society but then they may also eliminate the incentives for motivating the masses into this world of creativity.

With the good comes the bad, corruption is here to stay. We can only hope there would be less of it.

 

[mondongo]

with all the money that has been stolen:

we could have already paid off the govt Electric debt many times over....

TOday in the DR1 News: "The newspaper says that in August the government could have used RD$2.03 billion of the bonds money to make payments to the Dominican Electricity Corporation to rescind onerous contracts with several power generators."

Just as I suspected.

 

[Criss Colon]

Lets END Corruption in the DR!

May I suggest the use of several Neutron Bombs?