- Thread starter windeguy
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Haiti is a failed state in irreversible decline
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You need to work on your use of logic. Something that happened 221 years ago is by definition, irrelevant now. Again, I do think France owes Haiti, but sending them money will not work. A few will get rich and the rest will suffer. If you're asserting it's relevant, back up your assertion.
#3 is no assumption. I saw it first hand. Same as in the Dominican. Bribes by every government official. I do think though that it would be interesting to discover how much is actually wasted in bribes and graft.
I forgive those who think I lack knowledge of this subject.
Please explain:
How will the problems in Haiti get solved without money ❓
How will the problems get solved by Haitians living outside of their own country❓
Lower the draw bridge the raiding party is returning.
(Sounds of horses running flat out!)
Archers take your positions.
The raiding party is in.
Raise the drawbridge‼️
I went to APEC (actually UNAPEC) but that what us students call it. Excellent private university by the way. All of my classmates were Haitians. They all offered to take me to see their country. I should have took them up on their offers as I still have not been there.
I knew a Haitian that cleaned houses. She spoke four languages. The "go fer" man in my first building that I lived in after I moved to the Dominican Republic was a very hard working Haitian that would take care of any odd jobs within his ability. I would even loan him money and never failed to pay me back. He had a credit line with me (no interest) and when he paid down his loan I would loan him the money again when he needed. Did I mention that he never failed to pay me back? I have no doubt that the majority of Haitian people are people of strong integrity trying to survive under difficult economic circumstances.
Those who want to talk about how Haiti is a failed state are doing so from elevated perches. If billions of dollar are needed for infrastructure it does not matter how much integrity I have if I am President and my treasury is empty. In that particular case I get the money "by any means necessary”.
I might also add that not one of my classmates indicated to me they were seeking money in other countries. They all express a desire to return to their own country and make a difference.
Finally, I have no problem with my use of logic or vocabulary. Those who make those types of statements simply disagree with me.
Difference of opinions and you know what they say about those...
None of ya'll can predict the future. Simply because there are problems now do not mean that there will always be problems.
Please explain:
How will the problems in Haiti get solved without money ❓
How will the problems get solved by Haitians living outside of their own country❓
Lower the draw bridge the raiding party is returning.
(Sounds of horses running flat out!)
Archers take your positions.
The raiding party is in.
Raise the drawbridge‼️
I went to APEC (actually UNAPEC) but that what us students call it. Excellent private university by the way. All of my classmates were Haitians. They all offered to take me to see their country. I should have took them up on their offers as I still have not been there.
I knew a Haitian that cleaned houses. She spoke four languages. The "go fer" man in my first building that I lived in after I moved to the Dominican Republic was a very hard working Haitian that would take care of any odd jobs within his ability. I would even loan him money and never failed to pay me back. He had a credit line with me (no interest) and when he paid down his loan I would loan him the money again when he needed. Did I mention that he never failed to pay me back? I have no doubt that the majority of Haitian people are people of strong integrity trying to survive under difficult economic circumstances.
Those who want to talk about how Haiti is a failed state are doing so from elevated perches. If billions of dollar are needed for infrastructure it does not matter how much integrity I have if I am President and my treasury is empty. In that particular case I get the money "by any means necessary”.
I might also add that not one of my classmates indicated to me they were seeking money in other countries. They all express a desire to return to their own country and make a difference.
Finally, I have no problem with my use of logic or vocabulary. Those who make those types of statements simply disagree with me.
Difference of opinions and you know what they say about those...
None of ya'll can predict the future. Simply because there are problems now do not mean that there will always be problems.
Here is an opinion more knowledgeable than you or I. https://www.csis.org/analysis/haiti-failing-state AND THEN THERE IS THIS https://www.ukessays.com/essays/history/haiti-a-failed-state-history-essay.php
Some shared characteristics of failed or failing states. They are unable or unwilling to protect their citizens from violence and perhaps even destruction. They regard themselves as beyond the reach of domestic or international law, hence free to carry out aggression and violence. And if they have democratic forms, they suffer from a serious “democratic deficit” that deprives their formal democratic institutions of real substance. Noam Chomsky
There is, apparently, the occasional person who thinks there is some hope for Haiti.
The rest of the entire world realizes Haiti is irreconcilably failed.
The rest of the entire world realizes Haiti is irreconcilably failed.
It describe a much larger country to the north as well. The DR is a much more peaceful country with fair elections for the most part.
Here we go with the "It happens Everywhere" irrelevant comments. This is about how Haiti was, is and will forever be failed. Forever is a very long time. We don't need to bring Canada into this.
LOL, I was referring to a country bordering Canada to the south however some aspects could apply to Canada. I don't believe that Haiti needs to remain a failed state, but certainly it is that currently.
I believe Haiti was, is and will be a failed state. What is going to change to make it "un-fail"?
"Cash rules everything around me." - Wu Tang Clan With friends like the UN who needs enemies❓
The rest of the world cannot predict the future. And neither can the posters on DR1 here in this thread do it either. That will not change no matter how many times they repeat it.
It remains a fact that unless you are a time traveler that can travel into the future to see it and then not affect it when you return to you own time line, you cannot predict the future. I will stipulate that history is the only guide that some people use to judge others. But as discussed in another thread, if that is the case then we would never have anecdotal stories of individuals born into poverty that manage find their way to greater prosperity.
Outside forces within Haiti are not helping. The people of Haiti or its government are not in control of the majority of funds flowing through their country. The outside forces enter. They eat in Haiti's kitchen. They put their feet up on the dining room table. They party their behinds off. And then when they are ready to leave they do not even bother to clean up after themselves. But they are all very comfortable telling their friend when they leave: "Man Haiti is a messed up place. We could not do anything for them. Gotta a little money while I was there thought. Let me write this report up real quick.".
Get the (expletive deleted) out of here. Individuals can continue to state their opinions forcefully and with conviction. But just because they say it, it does not make it so ‼️
Much respect to those who agree to disagree with me without resulting to the usual ad hominem attacks that often flow from many of the people posting up in here. Having an apoplectic fit when someone does not agree with you, well that is just very unbecoming.
In 2012, Haiti’s Government established a long-term development strategic plan (strategic plan for development of Haiti: Vision 2030) and a new framework to coordinate the development assistance. A few months after President Jovenel Moïse took office in February 2017, he launched a program called Caravane du changement (Change Caravan) which focuses on seven priority axis, with support to infrastructure being a theme as central as cross-cutting. In this context, Canada’s engagement fits in the existing mechanisms of local coordination and is aligned with Haitian priorities for development – notably support to governance and the rule of law, and to improving the life quality of the poorest. The plan is there, it is the execution that isn't working.
Concurring/dissenting with the title of the thread..........that Haiti is a failed state in irreversible decline.
Haiti IS currently a failed state, but it is not irreversible...............it will just seem that way...............for the next 5 generations or so.
As to money/capital/cash solving Haiti's problems.....................that theory has been debunked over and over and over to the tune of Billions of dollars in aid from almost every corner of the globe. The elected or imposed leaders over the years, whether being from the right or left, have utterly failed.
It truly is a failed state.
Remain optimistic though.........................2121 will be here before you know it.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Haiti IS currently a failed state, but it is not irreversible...............it will just seem that way...............for the next 5 generations or so.
As to money/capital/cash solving Haiti's problems.....................that theory has been debunked over and over and over to the tune of Billions of dollars in aid from almost every corner of the globe. The elected or imposed leaders over the years, whether being from the right or left, have utterly failed.
It truly is a failed state.
Remain optimistic though.........................2121 will be here before you know it.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Most Haitians that I know here send money back to their families. It helps a little.
It's a big help. The problem is the money sent back from the USA, Europe, and Canada just helps with the basics. It's not enough for the most part to start and maintain a business. That's where micro-loans help. There are many individual success stories with them, mostly women. It's a road to independence.
We can debate yes or no the failed state status of Haiti all day and night. It's almost academic.
There are 11 million folks there. All human beings created in God's image and likeness. They could give a shit less if we call it a forever failed state or not. Those opinions don't put food on the table.
It has to start with the diaspora, but helping individual Haitians achieve a modicum of independence is a worthwhile endeavor. I work with 2 churches in Haiti, one in okap and the other in Savanne Longe, just outside of Ouanaminthe. They are doing just that, helping the individual members get themselves out of poverty.
There needs to be more of that on the micro level. Big bureaucracies like the Red Cross, the UN, and Children International don't do too much except drive nice jeepetas.
There are 11 million folks there. All human beings created in God's image and likeness. They could give a shit less if we call it a forever failed state or not. Those opinions don't put food on the table.
It has to start with the diaspora, but helping individual Haitians achieve a modicum of independence is a worthwhile endeavor. I work with 2 churches in Haiti, one in okap and the other in Savanne Longe, just outside of Ouanaminthe. They are doing just that, helping the individual members get themselves out of poverty.
There needs to be more of that on the micro level. Big bureaucracies like the Red Cross, the UN, and Children International don't do too much except drive nice jeepetas.
Ya know, you come on this site, stir up the waters on Haiti which is fine because you are obviously passionate about the subject before leaving the site for a month or two and then coming back and starting the same ol thing over again.."Cash rules everything around me." - Wu Tang Clan With friends like the UN who needs enemies❓
The rest of the world cannot predict the future. And neither can the posters on DR1 here in this thread do it either. That will not change no matter how many times they repeat it.
It remains a fact that unless you are a time traveler that can travel into the future to see it and then not affect it when you return to you own time line, you cannot predict the future. I will stipulate that history is the only guide that some people use to judge others. But as discussed in another thread, if that is the case then we would never have anecdotal stories of individuals born into poverty that manage find their way to greater prosperity.
Outside forces within Haiti are not helping. The people of Haiti or its government are not in control of the majority of funds flowing through their country. The outside forces enter. They eat in Haiti's kitchen. They put their feet up on the dining room table. They party their behinds off. And then when they are ready to leave they do not even bother to clean up after themselves. But they are all very comfortable telling their friend when they leave: "Man Haiti is a messed up place. We could not do anything for them. Gotta a little money while I was there thought. Let me write this report up real quick.".
Get the (expletive deleted) out of here. Individuals can continue to state their opinions forcefully and with conviction. But just because they say it, it does not make it so ‼️
Much respect to those who agree to disagree with me without resulting to the usual ad hominem attacks that often flow from many of the people posting up in here. Having an apoplectic fit when someone does not agree with you, well that is just very unbecoming.
Being that you are sooo passionate about Haiti, I'm curious as to what you personally do to make Haiti and her people a better place other than flapping your gums every other month on this forum??
I'm interested if your passion is fueled by any personal actions or is it just a load of hot air..
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