Rocky's Aqua End of the Line

[Caonabo]

I know this and i also know NOT every single one of them have live music to survive.

Correct you are. That is only one piece to their respective successful business module, if they so choose it to be. It is not the end all, save all. I believe you asked what bearing live musical entertainment may have upon an establishment, and I believe it has been answered in depth.

 

[bigbird]

Correct you are. That is only one piece to their respective successful business module, if they so choose it to be. It is not the end all, save all. I believe you asked what bearing live musical entertainment may have upon an establishment, and I believe it has been answered in depth.

Yes it has been answered, much thanks to windeguy and cobraboy.

 

[windeguy]

I know this and i also know NOT every single one of them have live music to survive.

Of course that is true and it does not even require a mastery of the obvious. It is not about survival. It is about setting oneself apart. Music for some, not all, since I don't live in Nashville or Austin.

Some places have better food and better drink prices and they even have good service ( I know, the good service part is the hardest to believe) . All of those certainly provide the establishment with a better chance than the place next door. I know all of that and live music really helped at The Holiday Inn in Johnstown back in the 1970s when I was 16.

 

[Caonabo]

Yes it has been answered, much thanks to windeguy and cobraboy.

Yes, as well. I have mentioned previously that their input into this sort of business venture is invaluable, and may assist many with future considerations for similar enterprises or prospects.

 

[bigbird]

Yes, as well. I have mentioned previously that their input into this sort of business venture is invaluable, and may assist many with future considerations for similar enterprises or prospects.

oops, my bad, forgot to include frank12 with his behind the scenes info

 

[frank12]

The band and the drinks are direct costs.

Rent, electricity (to an extent) diesel and septic are fixed costs MOL. Staff are variable costs, mainly if you have to add staff for music...

Unless the proprietor is a charity or as Coanabo says is using a live band for marleting, the band needs to be fully paid out of INCREMENTAL revenues.

A $100-150 band is incredibly cheap. Must be "Dominican Pricing." My cheapest band was $400 for a 3 or 4-hour gig (if a 3-6 member band), $100 for a guy on a stool at a 2-hour Happy Hour.

My best band was a group who just wanted 20% of the take while playing, including door charge (usually $5; door charges keep the riff-raff, cheapo 1-beer-all-night nursers away). So if they started at 9pm, we'd zero the registers and they got 20% of the register gross tally at bar closing, 2am...which is when they and their fans would leave.

Win-Win for all concerned. I got incremental profit out the wazoo, and the band made great coin.

Not sure about the USA, but here in the DR, you incur extra costs with live music, and here's why...

1. More people equals more people using the restrooms. Everyone on the beach/North coast has Septic Tanks. The more people using them, the sooner the Septic tanks fill up. They need emptied or you are going to have some tremendous smells wafing over the beach. We had to empty our septic tanks both the day before a Superbowl/St. Patirck's Day, and then immediately the next day. That's a lot of extra cost. Big cost!

2. Live Bands require more staff. You need more people in the kitchen. More people for the beach. An extra bartender behind the bar. On normal nights you can get by with one bartender. With a band/group/live music, you need to bring in another bartender and more wait & kitchen staff...equals more costs & expenses.

You pray that the band/live music will off-set the extra costs.

3. Depending on the size of the band, you got to be prepared with a Generator back up. If you already own one, no problem. If you don't, you better rent one, and quick. They can be expensive...equals extra cost.

There's a lot of extra cost that need accounted for by having bands or live music. It's not a simple Plug-N-Play concept or equation. Extra costs need off-set.

Again, if it was so simple, Lazy Dog would have been the richest bar by far on Cabarete beach. They had Live music nearly everyday.

 

[cobraboy]

Not sure about the USA, but here in the DR, you incur extra costs with live music, and here's why...

1. More people equals more people using the restrooms. Everyone on the beach/North coast has Septic Tanks. The more people using them, the sooner the Septic tanks fill up. They need emptied or you are going to have some tremendous smells wafing over the beach. We had to empty our septic tanks both the day before a Superbowl/St. Patirck's Day, and then immediately the next day. That's a lot of extra cost. Big cost!

2. Live Bands require more staff. You need more people in the kitchen. More people for the beach. An extra bartender behind the bar. On normal nights you can get by with one bartender. With a band/group/live music, you need to bring in another bartender and more wait & kitchen staff...equals more costs & expenses.

You pray that the band/live music will off-set the extra costs.

3. Depending on the size of the band, you got to be prepared with a Generator back up. If you already own one, no problem. If you don't, you better rent one, and quick. They can be expensive...equals extra cost.

There's a lot of extra cost that need accounted for by having bands or live music. It's not a simple Plug-N-Play concept or equation. Extra costs need off-set.

Again, if it was so simple, Lazy Dog would have been the richest bar by far on Cabarete beach. They had Live music nearly everyday.

No one is debating that some music raises INDIRECT costs. I stated that before.

But business isn't about losing money. If the music doesn't pay for itself, it's charity.

 

[DR_Guy]

And if either side appeals to the supreme court, it will be years.

 

[Caonabo]

Of course it is not that simple. If every place had live music in Cabarete, it would not work well because there are not enough tourists to fill every bar. As it is, the ones with live music that "works" are the ones that have a chance to draw more people and make more money. The ones that do have live music won't have it if it does not work for them. Chez Arsensios, El Choco Restaurant, The CheckPoint, The Beer Garden, LAX, The Lazy Dog, Kahunas, the former street parties in Sosua, Sosua Ocean Village restaurant and all the other places I have played with The DRopouts previously or Island Breeze now are not charities.

Well then, it seems some businesses do indeed have a proper module to follow and are seeing signs of success. Kudos to them. No doubt they have the proper systems and team in place to be successful.

 

[wuarhat]

I don't think anyone takes exception to idea of a business providing a living wage to their employees and treating them with fairness and respect - that's pretty much a given in the eyes of causal observers. However, that's not why a business exists and it's a bit of a diversion to exalt the virtues of being a decent employer as a potential means of directing attention from the fact that this business was not as profitable as it should have been to justify its existence in the first place.

It is a safe assumption that a business with a healthy revenue stream will not jeopardize that for the sake of withholding debt repayment unless that debt is crippling. If that is the case, then mistakes were made and the reality is that no matter how noble the intent, sooner or later the plug gets pulled - no captain goes down with the ship anymore.

This may only true from the perspective of some potential investors in that business. To those of us (especially those effected by the local economy) who have no intention of investing in said business these virtues are certainly worthy of exaltation. Equally worthy of exaltation is the support provided to the other businesses that sponge off the events that these businesses hold.

 

[frank12]

Frank I can tell you when someone approached my wife to play at O’shays the price they wanted to pay was down right insulting. I have never been a big fan of O’shays but thought it was good for Cabarete. I certainly would never go back after what the dude offered her. I don’t care about either people who have owned those places.

I guess you know what is coming here, right?

Neither Big Frank, nor me, nor do i think Rocky (I'll ask him) has ever approached your wife and asked her to play at our restaurant. So, this begs the question, who had authority to approach your wife and ask her to play at our bar?

Before i ask Rocky, i would like to know who this person could be?

You're wife is one of, if not, the most talented musicians I have ever seen play on the north coast. It's a pleasure to see her play piano and sing. She's more then just talented, she's phenomenal!

Back to O'Shay's & Rocky's.

I've been at O'Shay's & Rocky's for 11-years. I have never once seen you at our restaurant or bar. Like Windeguy, you're quick to criticize, but yet, you have never been a customer of ours that I am aware of.

I saw where you jumped on Sky's wagon earlier and somehow--god only knows why--thought that Sky (one of Big Frank's best friends of 40+ years) was unbiased, but that i was somehow biased. How on earth did you reach this conclusion when you neither know Big Frank, nor Sky, nor Rocky, nor me? You do not know Big Frank and my relationship of 14+ years. Nor do you know Rocky and my relationship of 8+years.

I think you might have a hidden agenda here, or at the very least, a biased agenda based on someone approaching your wife and offering her little money to play at our bar. How many years ago was this, and who was it?


When you first got into town, we ran into each other out front of the restaurant and we spoke about motorcycles in front of the pizza shop, remember? I remember it well.

I have never seen you at our bar or restaurant, so, I'm curious who would approach Andrea and ask her to play?

 

[frank12]

JD,

You do not live on the North Coast. You do not live in the DR. You do not work in the service industry here. You have never owned a restaurant or bar on this island. You do not know Big Frank. You do not know Rocky. You do not know anything about there business. And yet, you, and some others here, are suddenly reincarnated restaurant and bar experts.

You are a cool, nice guy. I liked sitting down and talking to you on the beach. But when did you become this negative of a human being?

Go back and read what you have written in this thread. You do not know one single thing about what the litigation is about. And neither does anyone else. Some people lightly touched on it, but they haven't read the contract. No one here has read the contract. Not one person! And yet, somehow, you and Coanoba have become these restaurant and bar gurus.

I think its disingenuous for you to show this much negativity when you do not know one single person involved in any of this.

You've become this very negative guy, and that is too bad, because you were such a cool person when we sat down and spoke on the beach. Now, you're suddenly a clairvoyant expert who knows what Big Frank & Rocky's think, and suddenly, you know what their lawsuit is about.

Not even Sky knows all the details---and he's Big Frank's best friend.

I want to know what your agenda is here? Is it to try and hurt me? That's cool. I can handle it. Is it to hurt Big Frank or Rocky? If so, then it begs the question, why?

 

[SKY]

It seems like some people did read your "Contract, and did hear "Both Sides". And they are the only ones that matter in this case. "They", being the Dominican Court. The ruling came down and it was not too good for this dead beat. Get over it Frank12.

 

[RV429]

I think you may need to get over it too Sky. Beating the same drum over and over.
I enjoyed O'shays a lot. That Butterball Turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas was excellent. Having cocktails on the beach with little Frankie, hard to beat. Watching Alabama Gary and Frank hang out in regal fashion was not bad either. The place had character.

Having said that, a business deal gone sour and ending in court is not a novel thing. Happens every day the world over.

 

[malko]

Ok. Funny thread. Lol. The openning post is quite succin, to say the least.

From what I gathered, we have a buisness ( a restaurant , O'sheas, or something like that ), we have an ex-owner ( Big Frank )and we have a current owner ( Rocky ? ).

Big Frank sells his buisness to Rocky. 2 cases.

First case : its a successful buisness. In my experience ( in europe, mind you ), a successful restaurant will sell for 1 to 1 and a half year of gross + the cost of all the stuff in it ( ie, tvs, tables, chairs, coffee machine, etc.......).

Second case : it is not a successful buisness. Then you could "buy" a buisness at no cost, apart from taking on all the passive of the place : debts, outstanding payements like rent, electricity, personnel charges, etc, etc........

In the first case, you change as little stuff as you can. You basically made an investment and want the place to continue making money.
Second case you change everything : decoration, food "style" , personnel, etc........in the hope of turning things around.

So, if i sit back and think of this particular case, such as it is reported on dr1, i smell something fishy.
200k $ for a successful restaurant ?....... never, not even in the Dominican Republic.
Then i notice that Rocky has changed the decoration and what not.
I also note that Rocky is a successful restaurant owner in the US. And yes, its not the dr, i get it..... but still the basics are the same.
Which leads me to think that Rocky aquired a not-so-successful buisness on the cheap and proceeded to try and make something out of it.
Fail. ( if dr1 is to believe ).

This is all my speculation, mind you.
Based upon my experience, all restaurants have hidden income, but also hidden expenses ( often to hide the hidden income, lol ).
So a plausible explanation for this whole problem would be that current owner uncovers all sorts of off-the-books expenses and, maybe, less than expected off-the-books income, then expected and/or told of at the time of the sale.

I mean, obviously, the current owner refusing to pay up what is still owed is a clear sign that he thinks he has a case in the eyes of the law ( and perhaps the current owner is not dr savy, i do not know ).
He wouldnt take the risk of losing the buisness, and his initial investment.
Now, if it was Paddy, the retired train conductor, that was the current owner, i would think diffrently. But a guy with a long experince in the restaurant buisness ?..........mmmmh.

 

[malko]

P.S. read "revenue figure " instead of " gross "

 

[SKY]

There is one important thing that has not been mentioned anywhere in this thread.

The sale also involved the large beach front property that Big Frank owned. That alone is worth as much or more than the final price......................

 

[malko]

There is one important thing that has not been mentioned anywhere in this thread.

The sale also involved the large beach front property that Big Frank owned. That alone is worth as much or more than the final price......................

Which is a great thing to know about this case.

I just assumed he bought the buisness and not the walls...... ( meaning he just took over paying the rent to the owner of the land and/or the structure itself ).

 

[SKY]

Which is a great thing to know about this case.

I just assumed he bought the buisness and not the walls...... ( meaning he just took over paying the rent to the owner of the land and/or the structure itself ).

I wonder why my friend Frank12 neglected to mention that. He mentioned everything else..............

 

[DR_Guy]

That's technically not true. When the place was foreclosed on, he didn't have to pay anyone anything. He did pay it. And he wouldn't have it any other way. Both Big Frank and Rocky have always been more then fair with their staff and employees.

Regarding the color scheme. I understand people either hated or liked it. I liked it. Other people liked it. It let natural light into the place. It also replaced an asbestos leaking roof that had been there since the early 90's.

If you want to debate aesthetics and color choices and say, "The reason i didn't go there was because of a Blue roof." That's disingenuous. I know exactly who went there. The people who came to watch football wouldn't care if the roof was pink, yellow, or purple.

The place got cleaned up, and that's a good thing. It lost it's Irish charm in the process, and that's a bad thing. It's a delicate balance, and not everyone is going to agree on what roof, what color scheme, and what things should be hanging from the ceiling, etc.

The decorations and roof color is subjective, and you are never going to please everyone. Some people liked it, some people hated it. The people who hated it tended to be people who didn't frequent the place anyway. The people who liked it or didn't care, were coming for the football games, Superbowl, burgers, the staff, the people, location on the beach, etc.

I never heard anyone say, "Let's not go there because they have a blue roof!"

Football is only one day per week. If you cator to locals who watch football, better to open sports bar for 7 day a week. crowd. When you have so many choices, a first time visitor will go to a place on how it feels. Pretty sure John Taffer would have never picked the color scheme, just sayin.