What Benefit Do We Get From You Guys?.

[tht]

Would be interesting to know what percentage of expat become Dominican citizens?. I wonder if that poll has ever been conducted here?.

Why should / would an expat become a Dominican citizen? Can't see the benefits neither for the Dominican side nor the expat side of it. A legal resident yes, but not a citizen, unless there are real legal benefits of being a citizen as opposed to just a resident.

tht

Bonafide Resident of the Dominican Republic. Contributor to the local economy.

 

[bullitt510]

I like to look at things from both sides...what benefit do Dominicans (if any) provide to New York City. The second largest Dominican population on the planet. Both are potentially positive or negative, right.Sorry for the over simplification.

 

[rio2003]

I like to look at things from both sides...what benefit do Dominicans (if any) provide to New York City. The second largest Dominican population on the planet. Both are potentially positive or negative, right.Sorry for the over simplification.

I cannot answer directly as I am a Brit but if it is anything like the UK many of the immigrants do the jobs that British people do not want. Minimum wage, unsocial hours, unskilled labour.
That is the difference - people who go to the DR have made their money already, by and large, and are either living off the interest or reinvesting it in some way once settled. Big fish in a little pond. A Dominican who goes overseas in search of a new life doesn't have that advantage and will usually have to start at the bottom and work his way up. Unless of course they have other means at their disposal

Rio

 

[MikeFisher]

Well, we spend money, pay our light bills, don't have any chickens or roosters in the yard, and we don't play boom boxes at full volume. We discipline our children and don't cut ahead of other people standing in line. We drive sanely and consider a two-lane road to be just that. We don't race by pedestrians on motorcycles and grab purses off women's shoulders.

Are these the sort of benefits you had in mind when you posted your question?

you are in the wrong place.
if all in the DR would be like that i would not like to live here.
anything of real value to contribute to community?
Mike

 

[MikeFisher]

Employment comes to mind...

em?ploy?ment   [em-ploi-muhnt]
?noun
1.
an act or instance of employing someone or something.
2.
the state of being employed; employ; service: to begin or terminate employment.
3.
an occupation by which a person earns a living; work; business.
4.
the total number of people gainfully employed or working.
5.
an activity or the like that occupies a person's time: She found knitting a comforting employment for her idle hours.

Expats living in the DR are the big Employers of the country???
weird
Mike

 

[bachata]

They love us for our money, of course!

And for the chance to practice English.

And, in the case of Americans, the
Obama fist bump.

And, for the fact that of all the places that we could have chosen to live, we chose to live here....
so I would assume that it boosts self esteem a bit....

since indeed most of us who are here do indeed love both the Island and the people and are even a bit
Mad for Mangu.

My landlady thanks god every night for the Pope and for me (technically for the dollars but also because I finally just gave up asking her to do any repairs since she has no money.... and the neighbor downstairs took up the cause of the leak with the neighbor upstairs over the leak so that I would stay since I am quiet, and I pay my maintenance on time, and deliver frozen veggie lasagna whenever I make it.)

Plus we are great promoters of the place.... our friends and family come to visit,,,

and look, see

we even spend our time writing on this really cool message board here in English so that other people who speak
English will be able to find their way around and will come here and spend their money!

Excellent answer, we need more people like you in DR.

JJ

 

[rio2003]

As my post has been deleted I think you may be correct.

Rio

 

[MikeFisher]

I cannot answer directly as I am a Brit but if it is anything like the UK many of the immigrants do the jobs that British people do not want. Minimum wage, unsocial hours, unskilled labour.
That is the difference - people who go to the DR have made their money already, by and large, and are either living off the interest or reinvesting it in some way once settled. Big fish in a little pond. A Dominican who goes overseas in search of a new life doesn't have that advantage and will usually have to start at the bottom and work his way up. Unless of course they have other means at their disposal

Rio

i agree to your description of the difference between a DR citizen moving abroad comparing to many from he outside moving to the DR.
but i completely disagree to the part i highlighted in the quote.
by my own experience those expats are a clear minority. the largest number of expats are by far not financially stable/secured when they move here, no big job at home tho no big to catch here either.
there are very different groups of Expats who contribute to the country in very different ways and impacts.
Mike

 

[rio2003]

i agree to your description of the difference between a DR citizen moving abroad comparing to many from he outside moving to the DR.
but i completely disagree to the part i highlighted in the quote.
by my own experience those expats are a clear minority. the largest number of expats are by far not financially stable/secured when they move here, no big job at home tho no big to catch here either.
there are very different groups of Expats who contribute to the country in very different ways and impacts.
Mike

Excellent point Mike and you are totally correct.
I was actually ignoring the "unstable" expats who go to the DR in search of ........ something! and with very little to do it with.
I was actually thinking of the people who stay and settle, not the ones who burn out within a short while and return home with their tails between their legs or on to some other "shangri la".
Like a tide, the ones with no stability come and go.
Rio

 

[Ken]

i agree to your description of the difference between a DR citizen moving abroad comparing to many from he outside moving to the DR.
but i completely disagree to the part i highlighted in the quote.
by my own experience those expats are a clear minority. the largest number of expats are by far not financially stable/secured when they move here, no big job at home tho no big to catch here either.
there are very different groups of Expats who contribute to the country in very different ways and impacts.
Mike

I think you are off base on this. Perhaps in the circles that you operate the majority are not financially stable, but I think that the very large number of homes, condos, etc., that have been purchased far exceeds the number of persons you are referring to. The people who occupy these homes, apartments, condos are contributing to the Dominican Republic in many ways and are most certainly not indigent.

The number of foreign residents who spend their days in the local bars complaining about Dominican mismanagement of this country are a small minority, not the majority.

 

[MikeFisher]

I think you are off base on this. Perhaps in the circles that you operate the majority are not financially stable, but I think that the very large number of homes, condos, etc., that have been purchased far exceeds the number of persons you are referring to. The people who occupy these homes, apartments, condos are contributing to the Dominican Republic in many ways and are most certainly not indigent.

The number of foreign residents who spend their days in the local bars complaining about Dominican mismanagement of this country are a small minority, not the majority.

i of course respect your own opinion and experience on that point,
even that my own opinion and experience is the opposite.
the area i live in since a good 15 years is Punta Cana, one of those Condo areas i would guess, at least the area is full of such. but the foreign condo owners are outnumbered by the expats who work once in a while on a tour/diving center etc for 500 bucks or less a month. that is not meant as offense to the workers at watersports centers, but my point is that the average foreign employee there never brought a cent with him/her on the Island, they come and go, when ever the employment got lost and the last Fiao at the bar/colmado is taken. they are present in very large numbers, and nothing wrong about it, they are not some kinda criminals or sucking out local community, they work for their money, they spend the lil they make, they are happy with that kinda lifestyle, many of them are young people who experience that way a different country, nothing bad about it.
but related to the OP of this discussion they do not contribute anything significant to the local community.
yes, the people who build/buy Condos here do contribute to the community, no doubt about that, but in my surroundings in punta cana they are still a minority in numbers compared to the total number of Expats. take an other example from again right here on the east, the numerous foreign representatives of the touragencies, working under foreign contracts, very often issued in switzerland, taxes on their income paid in switzerland, social security for teir employment paid in switzerland, most of their food and drinks consumed at the resorts where it is free for them so the local foodchain depends on their once in a while happening overdulging excessive parties off the resorts.
but again,
there are very different groups of expats,
and they do contribute or not to the local community in very different ways/amounts.
Mike

 

[BushBaby]

There was a post I read this morning about some of the DOMINICAN posters not posting here now due to the over dramatic & vile, insulting behaviour of one (maybe two) posters - it appears to have been deleted now otherwise I would have used the "Quote" button to recall it.

May I point out to that posters that it is not JUST Dominicans on this board that have gotten fed up with this style of posting (the 'For Effect - It's all about ME' spiteful style), there are a few NON Dominican posters who have left (either voluntarily or by being banned). There are to my knowledge a number of the long term posters who have also reduced drastically the input they used to give. To those who are 'protecting' these few posters I offer this plea

EITHER PLAY FAIR & ALLOW OUR RESPONSES TO THEIR VITRIOL or stop them from making these wild, unsubstantiated, over biassed statements written purely to incite others! Can you not demonstrate to our Dominican hosts that we are capable of allowing FAIR & JUSTIFIED CRITICISM written in a non inciting manner so as to obtain & discuss a range of matters which are (generally) of interest to most of us who love this country?

One of the MOST IMPORTANT things this forum can offer to the Dominicans is that of a FAIR & RESPONSIBLE press. I fully acknowledge that the WORLD'S press is contaminated by pressures of Big Business & Governmental interference but DR1 is not big enough to worry about these small matters of selling one's soul to the highest bidder!!

Leaving this post standing will demonstrate that you hear our concerns & will endeavour to improve the elimination of vitriol/people bashing (direct & indirect) &/or the laying of false claims for the benefit of self! Removal of this post will demonstrate that WE - who contribute to the success of this board - are totally unimportant & only THY will will be done ......... with I suspect the resulting fall off of regular & informative postings by those who have so much to contribute. ~ Grahame. (maybe soon to be EX-poster??????)

 

[mountainannie]

I think the contributions are minimal and this is why;

1. Numbers, numbers, numbers. I don't think there's enough expats to make a big impact. I don't know about others countries but having lived in the US for a number of years I know that regular folks don't make enough money to retire to DR, so you guys must have done something right.
   
   Either your level of education or your work ethic or your skill; something propelled you ahead of the crowd and Dominicans can only benefit from that but like I said before, not enough of you.
   
2. Attitude. Now, since I'm fairly new in the forum I could be wrong and I'm willing to be corrected but reading DR1 posts one got the impression that most of you are a bunch of malcontents, a group of people trapped in an island from which you can't get away fast enough. Even those who are sons and daughters of Dominicans sound very unhappy, although you would assume they would be more understanding of DR realities.
   
   I'm aware that the internet is a wonderful tool to disguise people's personalities and probably 99.9% of you are wonderful, happy people but that is not how you come across. Most of you look sad and sad people don't make positive contributions to their society.
   
   Also, most of you seem to look down upon Dominican society, and generally speaking immigrants don't integrate into societies they look down upon, and if you don't integrate your contributions are going to be minimal.
   
   I do agree with what some of you said about the importance of shopping, paying taxes, buying real estate etc., those are wonderful contributions but if that is all you do then (and once again addressing Robert's post) Dominicans who emigrate to your respective countries contribute more to their adopted societies, because being an underclass we know the necessity and make an effort to integrate to our new homes.
   
   If all you do is spending a few bucks here and there then you are behaving like a plastic implant, you are doing no harm but the good won't be long lasting either.
   
   I can name a few posters that are the exception to that rule, off the top of my head; Lambada, Chip, Hillybilly, Bushbaby, Robert, Chirimoya, Pedro, Catcher, Annie etc. When these guys complain they usually do it on solid ground, and one don't perceive the subtle intention to just deride the country.
   
   Like Africaida said I should have rephrased the question in a more polite way, I was in a rush and did it as fast as possible, no intention to harm anybody's feeling, no need to be defensive.
   
   

Whew, glad I made the cut! But you have a good diagnostic there.... and I think that we should shine a little light here because I think that your first premise is wrong... I think that there are FAR MORE people who could afford to live here than do come here and that it is FAR cheaper to retire here than in the STates... I would suggest that US expats go to Mexico and Costa Rica because they feel more welcomed.

I would also suggest that many of the expats have gone to the beach communities and stayed there... many perhaps came in search of chicas since that is one of the primary "sports"... but if there were some sort of organized program that actually welcomed sucessful boomers,.. not to exploit them but to help them integrate... that would make it easier on us.

It has not been an easy haul settling in here.. really...

 

[rio2003]

I liked your post Mountainannie

I personally think that even the impoverished foreign employees can still be of benefit to Dominicans, they are more likely to be spending their hard earned in the cheaper, local places. They are more likely to be mixing with local people rather than in expat communities.

I agree with the foreign rep argument that they are mainly employed from their home countries and pay taxes there. The short term reps tend to stick to the resorts, however, there are many that have chosen to make the DR their home and have permanent contracts in the DR.

People benefit when another persons attitude is a good one. If we treat people how we would like to be treated in return then eventually it rubs off.

Rio

 

[DR Mpe]

I think Ken2 deserve a chance to explain his comments on the purse grabbing stuff.

I think a question like yours deserves an answer like that. Hey, without foreign influence there would be now plastic chairs to sit on. My 2 cents.

 

[bachata]

I think a question like yours deserves an answer like that. Hey, without foreign influence there would be now plastic chairs to sit on. My 2 cents.

I like foreign influence when it come from well educated expat better than when it come from the stupid barrios folks who raise their children in the ghetto of NY city and bring back to DR all the bad customs of US.

JJ

 

[MikeFisher]

I liked your post Mountainannie

I personally think that even the impoverished foreign employees can still be of benefit to Dominicans, they are more likely to be spending their hard earned in the cheaper, local places. They are more likely to be mixing with local people rather than in expat communities.

I agree with the foreign rep argument that they are mainly employed from their home countries and pay taxes there. The short term reps tend to stick to the resorts, however, there are many that have chosen to make the DR their home and have permanent contracts in the DR.

People benefit when another persons attitude is a good one. If we treat people how we would like to be treated in return then eventually it rubs off.

Rio

total agreement from my side.
no group can be generalized.
i know myself a good number of long term reps here on the east, many are married to a dominican spouse, the very most of them have children here, own the house they live in etc etc, like myself without any intention to leave the Island for any other reason than the one to spend a vacation time at a different spot once in a while. and those of course contribute to the local community on many different points. economicwise due spending their money for food/drinks/school/car/house/all the living stuff here in the country, including paying their taxes also here in the country, due their living together with dominican families/neighbours they bring over the years their point of view of things into the community, they discuss things like politics/economies/cars/sports/social live stuff etc with their neighbours/families, locals and internationals alike, it mixes for everybody in such community and everybody can take advantage of the ''new features/knowledge'', each contributes positively to the mixed community on such, even disagreements on some things have their psitive effects in such sozial relations.
but within the large number of collegues it is a rare spezies, lol.
Mike
waiting for my beloved Brazilians to kick of the game now.

 

[MikeFisher]

I think a question like yours deserves an answer like that. Hey, without foreign influence there would be now plastic chairs to sit on. My 2 cents.

completely wrong point of view.

without foreigners carrying aroung fat purses there would not be a purse snatching business, b/c to use a purse been not te typical ole fasioned DR way to carry te few pesos around, lol.
Mike

 

[Vacara]

I think a question like yours deserves an answer like that. Hey, without foreign influence there would be now plastic chairs to sit on. My 2 cents.

Are you suggesting that my question is inappropiate?, I don't really understand your post so if you can elaborate a bit more.

As an immigrant in the US, not only is my presence continually questioned by the media and politicians about its influence; but also my sons and daughters, born and raised in this country are scrutinize 24/7, and not with simple questions on internet boards. but rather with all sort of stats, numbers, charts, etc., on the radio, tv, blogs. Will they climb up the ladder?, will they be a drag on the economy?.

As the father of an honor student, one of 8 chosen in the entire US for extracurricular activities and who is currently competing with students from all over the States for a "Beca", I can answer many of these question with a big, resounding Y E S.

I don't mind being questioned, I welcome constructive criticism, so explain to me why -as your post seems to suggest- expats living in DR should be excluded from this type of scrutiny?.

I regret not having -in the original post- politely asked people about their country of origin, just to know where this arrogance comes from (but I suspect who they are).

This "I'm above the rest of you guys" attitude is really ridiculous.

 

[rio2003]

total agreement from my side.
no group can be generalized.
waiting for my beloved Brazilians to kick of the game now.

Snap - but I am at work at Sky Sports, how's that for a great job!

Enjoy the match....

Rio