- Thread starter Vacara
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What Benefit Do We Get From You Guys?.
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and i didnt generalize, in case thats what you alluded to. as i said those particular expats who are forever spewing at the mouth about how dominicans are feral beings can shove it. if the hat does not fit, do not worry about it.
its obvious this isnt every expat which is why i stated i have no problem whatsoever w those who arent on some "im so much better than you" tip and actually view dominicans as human beings.
its obvious this isnt every expat which is why i stated i have no problem whatsoever w those who arent on some "im so much better than you" tip and actually view dominicans as human beings.
Indeed, it takes a few centuries of distancing to be able to analyse dispassionately. Or.........an ability to analyse non-defensively.
Ken2, the Taino lived in bohios, properly constructed homes with a thatched roof, not caves :cheeky: as far as I'm aware. We know they had furniture. Maybe they just used the caves as their art galleries (cave paintings etc)?
But back to benefits, what do you think Vacara?
I think the contributions are minimal and this is why;
- Numbers, numbers, numbers. I don't think there's enough expats to make a big impact. I don't know about others countries but having lived in the US for a number of years I know that regular folks don't make enough money to retire to DR, so you guys must have done something right.
Either your level of education or your work ethic or your skill; something propelled you ahead of the crowd and Dominicans can only benefit from that but like I said before, not enough of you.
- Attitude. Now, since I'm fairly new in the forum I could be wrong and I'm willing to be corrected but reading DR1 posts one got the impression that most of you are a bunch of malcontents, a group of people trapped in an island from which you can't get away fast enough. Even those who are sons and daughters of Dominicans sound very unhappy, although you would assume they would be more understanding of DR realities.
I'm aware that the internet is a wonderful tool to disguise people's personalities and probably 99.9% of you are wonderful, happy people but that is not how you come across. Most of you look sad and sad people don't make positive contributions to their society.
Also, most of you seem to look down upon Dominican society, and generally speaking immigrants don't integrate into societies they look down upon, and if you don't integrate your contributions are going to be minimal.
I do agree with what some of you said about the importance of shopping, paying taxes, buying real estate etc., those are wonderful contributions but if that is all you do then (and once again addressing Robert's post) Dominicans who emigrate to your respective countries contribute more to their adopted societies, because being an underclass we know the necessity and make an effort to integrate to our new homes.
If all you do is spending a few bucks here and there then you are behaving like a plastic implant, you are doing no harm but the good won't be long lasting either.
I can name a few posters that are the exception to that rule, off the top of my head; Lambada, Chip, Hillybilly, Bushbaby, Robert, Chirimoya, Pedro, Catcher, Annie etc. When these guys complain they usually do it on solid ground, and one don't perceive the subtle intention to just deride the country.
Like Africaida said I should have rephrased the question in a more polite way, I was in a rush and did it as fast as possible, no intention to harm anybody's feeling, no need to be defensive.
Vacara,
A well written and considered response.
I was thinking about your post and the #'s argument earlier this afternoon. Millions of tourists visiting, but a much smaller # of foreigners (except Haitians) actually living here. The tourists probably leave more of an impression on the populace in general.
What you say about work ethic, skill, etc is flattering and applies to some. There is another group I believe that was unsuccessful in their homeland and they find it easier to continue to not excel in this environment... "hey, i'm as poor as everyone else & can get by on 10000 pesos a month." Back home, they'd be looked down upon as close to bums. Unfortunately there are also those dodging debts, police pursuit, etc.
As for attitude, I'm not sure what comes across in my posts but I'm here by choice and quite happy. 20 years of working with and/or living in DR - I consider myself blessed that my life led me in this direction. I have respect and admiration for what is accomplished here, including the good intentions that sometimes go awry in their execution. I could leave tomorrow, but I sure don't want to.
A well written and considered response.
I was thinking about your post and the #'s argument earlier this afternoon. Millions of tourists visiting, but a much smaller # of foreigners (except Haitians) actually living here. The tourists probably leave more of an impression on the populace in general.
What you say about work ethic, skill, etc is flattering and applies to some. There is another group I believe that was unsuccessful in their homeland and they find it easier to continue to not excel in this environment... "hey, i'm as poor as everyone else & can get by on 10000 pesos a month." Back home, they'd be looked down upon as close to bums. Unfortunately there are also those dodging debts, police pursuit, etc.
As for attitude, I'm not sure what comes across in my posts but I'm here by choice and quite happy. 20 years of working with and/or living in DR - I consider myself blessed that my life led me in this direction. I have respect and admiration for what is accomplished here, including the good intentions that sometimes go awry in their execution. I could leave tomorrow, but I sure don't want to.
Indeed, it takes a few centuries of distancing to be able to analyse dispassionately. Or.........an ability to analyse non-defensively.
Ken2
Recontruccion of a Taino village in Cuba. Doesn't look like a cave to me.
Now back to the topic.
Some of you people need to get a real job or find a better hobby. It seems like anyone can throw any stupid topic and the thread will reach 60 pages long.
Some expats live real lives within real dominicans and provide important services. No wonder these expats are always connected and always doing something productive, seems like the rest of you folks just sit around to discuss another meaningless topic to death.
AZB
Some expats live real lives within real dominicans and provide important services. No wonder these expats are always connected and always doing something productive, seems like the rest of you folks just sit around to discuss another meaningless topic to death.
AZB
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What the goddamned phouc?!
DIDN'T YOU START A GODDAMNED STUPID THREAD ABOUT A GODDAMNED LOST PHOUCKING CHICKEN RECENTLY?
WTF????????????? YOU MUST BE JEALOUS THIS AIN'T ABOUT YOU. OR MAYBE IT IS...
But how does this relate to benefits Dominicans gain (or don't) from having expats living in the DR? Are you suggesting that if no foreigners had ever moved here, Dominicans wouldn't have developed modern farming techniques? And yes I know about Trujillo bringing in Japanese immigrants to develop agricultural irrigation systems in Constanza.
There would seem to be an assumption in some responses that if the foreigner hadn't set foot in the DR, then 'development' would not have occurred. I don't understand this. Why would people make that assumption?
And AZB, since I have spotted you on this thread, just a gentle reminder that I would like you to correct your medical diagnosis on the other thread - see post 256
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/103475-57-dominicans-live-poverty-26.html
If you see my response it was really generally directed at those that feel that any 'colonization' over the centuries has been wrong and without merit when this couldn't be further from the truth - specifically in this case the arrival of the Spanish.
As far as if the theoretical proposition of what the DR would have been like without European intervention one could just look at other NA societies in say Brazil to see where they would be. While it may appear idyllic, there is no way a hunter gatherer system can support an ever increasing population and the density associated with it. In primitive societies the solution has been to expans the borders or start wars to find more arable land - that is if disease and famine doesn't automatically check the population.
At any rate, most of the infrastructure ideas were developed long ago in Africa and the Middle East - and thank God for that.
a lot of people here apparently do not realise we live in a small world nowadays... with cheap airfares, reasonably open borders, etc... it is natural that different nationalities move, and settle, around the world...
I left Europe because I wanted a more relaxed, and friendlier way of life, and I found this here... I do not live in a gated community, nor would I want to, and am trying to integrate myself as much as possible in the lifestyle, and customs here...
Am I a valuable asset here in the DR???... I don't know... I would like to think I am, but then again, so would everybody, I assume... I only know I respect local people, and customs, and adapt to them... I do not behave like the rich baffoon, throwing money around, and treating the locals as dirt... but I try to integrate...
And yes, I do get a lot of respect for that, which becomes more obvious every month I live here... and I respect the people here more and more, and appreciate them more and more...
The world is a small place nowadays... and people will spread around... and it is the same in every country... all over the world...
out of 100 foreigners living in a specific country... 30 will appreciate and integrate... and 70 will be there because they can afford it...
I left Europe because I wanted a more relaxed, and friendlier way of life, and I found this here... I do not live in a gated community, nor would I want to, and am trying to integrate myself as much as possible in the lifestyle, and customs here...
Am I a valuable asset here in the DR???... I don't know... I would like to think I am, but then again, so would everybody, I assume... I only know I respect local people, and customs, and adapt to them... I do not behave like the rich baffoon, throwing money around, and treating the locals as dirt... but I try to integrate...
And yes, I do get a lot of respect for that, which becomes more obvious every month I live here... and I respect the people here more and more, and appreciate them more and more...
The world is a small place nowadays... and people will spread around... and it is the same in every country... all over the world...
out of 100 foreigners living in a specific country... 30 will appreciate and integrate... and 70 will be there because they can afford it...
An interesting thread!
We employ three locals full-time in our bar - if we only employed two we would make money - well this year I might have to revise that to one lol.
As stated previously here, we also benefit the local economy by buying locally produced beer, rum etc for the bar & using local lawyers (although why supporting lawyers is a good thing is beyond me!).
We love this island & the people with one important caveat. We consider Dominicans in tourist areas "polluted" by the gringos. They more often than not see us as walking ATM's. When you get away from these areas, Dominicans are quite different & in my humble opinion "better" people.
These of course are generalisations & do not apply to all.
Overall, are foreigners a benefit to the country? I don't really know, but I tend to believe not because most of the truely loatheful individuals I have met have been expats.
We employ three locals full-time in our bar - if we only employed two we would make money - well this year I might have to revise that to one lol.
As stated previously here, we also benefit the local economy by buying locally produced beer, rum etc for the bar & using local lawyers (although why supporting lawyers is a good thing is beyond me!).
We love this island & the people with one important caveat. We consider Dominicans in tourist areas "polluted" by the gringos. They more often than not see us as walking ATM's. When you get away from these areas, Dominicans are quite different & in my humble opinion "better" people.
These of course are generalisations & do not apply to all.
Overall, are foreigners a benefit to the country? I don't really know, but I tend to believe not because most of the truely loatheful individuals I have met have been expats.
Spot on.... How many times does "class" come up on this forum? I think if someone has to constantly tell us that they are of a certain class then that tells us more about them than they realise. :tired:
I totally agree that there are some expats who feel they are "too good" for the regular people, as you put it.
An earlier poster said that we can give much to the Dominicans, and indeed they seek it - education about other parts of the world for instance. The vast majority will never leave the DR. The chance to learn a little English, or to practise it. I have spent many, many hours with the kids counting, reciting and writing the alphabet and having simple conversations. I have shown my friends some different dishes to cook. I have demonstrated some basic horse whispering to incredulous Dominican "horse men". OK these are only small things but I know they meant a lot.
In return I have learnt how to dance a mean Bachata, speak Spanish far, far better than I was taught at school, be far more humble than I ever knew I was capable of, and a lot of other things besides.
On another note - I also compliment Africaida on her posting. I would like to think being female also contributes to the civility shown. A quality that is sadly lacking on some of the posts here. :ermm:
Cat amongst the pigeons time, methinks :cheeky:
Rio
Clueless if you ask me. If Santo Domingo hadn't been discovered/colonized by Europeans it was eventually going to be by either the Mayans or the Aztecans who at that time were -according to historians- on the verge of becoming a more civilized society. They were very capable of feeding large amount of people.
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When I grew up in the wilds of british Columbia Canada we had chickens in our front yard. Our rooster chased everyone - better than a guard dog. When I grew up and visited Europe, China, .....etc I found that it was quite a common phenomena.
I think the main thing expats give to the DR is, as many have said, - Money.
Every culture is different and there is something each and everyone of us can learn from each other. Me for one am a master of none, but somewhat of a jack of all trades. I know a little about many things. I learn something new every day. I like Dominicans and the DR, but what thing that does erk me is the inability of Dominicans to take any, even the smallest thing that could be criticism. You have to be so careful with your wording to avoid this.
I think Ken2 deserve a chance to explain his comments on the purse grabbing stuff.
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