Jovenel Moïse is a dictator at this point...

[Yourmaninvegas]

wrong again as usual!!, on so many fronts. Stick to union matters at the N.J bus drivers transit association. You know less about Haiti than anyone. Never even entered but yet you are an expert. Actually, as pointed out previously, aren't you an expert on every subject matter. lol

Wrong on what fronts ❓

You do not even live in the 🇩🇴
And yet you seem to be an expert on all things Haiti
And the 🇩🇴

Make your points of logical intellectual argument.
If you can.
I understand that you find psychological discomfort confronting me as your intellectual superior.
Relax it is just a discussion.

 

[mountainannie]

sla

slavery has been around the world and back in every culture. You can use it as a crutch or pass it out as a free pass 100 years later and/or let people use it as a safety net for every failure and short coming, that's you. Present day Haiti's dysfunctional country and complete chaos has nothing to do with slavery. But it does make people feel better to make excuses on their behalf.

Please refer back to post #132...

and, yes, I have lived in Haiti
and, yes, I covered the DR/Haitian border as a journalist & went to PauP many times during my 14 years there
and yes, I suspect that I know a bit more about Haiti than you do

But -then - I expect that you and differ on Many - if not Most - subjects

And you are certainly entitled to your opinions.

 

[nigrarosa]

I have spent the last two hours reading through this this piece, i want to thank every one for the education that I have received on the history of Hispaniola. If i may make a suggestion to the Mods. You should include a Racist Emoji in your selection, because i see a lot of it in this thread. Just my two Peso's worth.

 

[La Profe_1]

If i may make a suggestion to the Mods. You should include a Racist Emoji in your selection, because i see a lot of it in this thread. Just my two Peso's worth.

I am a mod, but not for this forum, so all I can do is express an opinion.

The references to race, which seem to be inextricably intertwined in any discussion of Haitian history are, without doubt uncomfortably close to the prohibited topic on DR1. It would take the wisdom of Solomon to know what to do with them

 

[Big]

Please refer back to post #132...

and, yes, I have lived in Haiti
and, yes, I covered the DR/Haitian border as a journalist & went to PauP many times during my 14 years there
and yes, I suspect that I know a bit more about Haiti than you do

But -then - I expect that you and differ on Many - if not Most - subjects

And you are certainly entitled to your opinions.

Traveled to Haiti several times as well, 8 years ago for my company. I am not a journalist, but a realist and a capitalist. Making excuses and blaming others is not my game plan, but hey like you say that's my opinion. Throw all the money at that quagmire I say , just as long as it ain't mine. Just curious, is French Creole even a marketable language?

 

[Big]

I have spent the last two hours reading through this this piece, i want to thank every one for the education that I have received on the history of Hispaniola. If i may make a suggestion to the Mods. You should include a Racist Emoji in your selection, because i see a lot of it in this thread. Just my two Peso's worth.

That's a great idea, because anytime you disagree with someone you can just hit that button.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again.

I’ve been the mod for the Haiti forum almost since it’s inception in 2010 after the earthquake. Race is a taboo subject on DR1, but since the beginning I’ve allowed some discussion about race because it is intertwined with Haitian history.

That doesn’t mean it’s a free for all. 👀

 

[Naked_Snake]

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again.

I’ve been the mod for the Haiti forum almost since it’s inception in 2010 after the earthquake. Race is a taboo subject on DR1, but since the beginning I’ve allowed some discussion about race because it is intertwined with Haitian history.

That doesn’t mean it’s a free for all. 👀

I have done my damnedest to avoid it, ma'am, but when talking about the history and class system of the place it becomes kinda inevitable and par the course. The trick is to not get into the baiting line and keeping it all in a descriptive mode, as if one was giving a lecture at college.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have done my damnedest to avoid it, ma'am, but when talking about the history and class system of the place it becomes kinda inevitable and par the course. The trick is to not get into the baiting line and keeping it all in a descriptive mode, as if one was giving a lecture at college.

Exactly. You, Annie and NALs have done a remarkable job, thank you.

 

[mountainannie]

Traveled to Haiti several times as well, 8 years ago for my company. I am not a journalist, but a realist and a capitalist. Making excuses and blaming others is not my game plan, but hey like you say that's my opinion. Throw all the money at that quagmire I say , just as long as it ain't mine. Just curious, is French Creole even a marketable language?

I do not think that observing and citing the history of Haiti is making excuses but rather simply acknowledging the reality of the history of that nation. There is certainly plenty of blame to go around - but the bulk of it is most certainly not on the shoulders of the Haitian peasants. I post - again - the link to the essay written in 1986 by Bob Corbett who was one of the best observers of Haiti - and teachers of us English speakers who followed his work - R.I. P. https://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-is-haiti-so-poor.html It is not a long essay.

 

[Naked_Snake]

I do not think that observing and citing the history of Haiti is making excuses but rather simply acknowledging the reality of the history of that nation. There is certainly plenty of blame to go around - but the bulk of it is most certainly not on the shoulders of the Haitian peasants. I post - again - the link to the essay written in 1986 by Bob Corbett who was one of the best observers of Haiti - and teachers of us English speakers who followed his work - R.I. P. https://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-is-haiti-so-poor.html It is not a long essay.

It was via him that I discovered the fantastic fictional trilogy of Madison Smartt Bell about Toussaint and the revolution (All Souls Rising, Master of the Crossroads and The Stone That The Builder Refused). Here are the cut chapters for the first of those books:

"All Souls Rising," The Writer's Cut

 

[Big]

I do not think that observing and citing the history of Haiti is making excuses but rather simply acknowledging the reality of the history of that nation. There is certainly plenty of blame to go around - but the bulk of it is most certainly not on the shoulders of the Haitian peasants. I post - again - the link to the essay written in 1986 by Bob Corbett who was one of the best observers of Haiti - and teachers of us English speakers who followed his work - R.I. P. https://elizabetheames.blogspot.com/2009/01/why-is-haiti-so-poor.html It is not a long essay.

Well I do understand and agree with one component of that writing. French Creole pretty much guarantees zero employment prospects and/or advancement. As does afrikaans, which I speak and Swahili which I have a working knowledge of. Things have to be bad for people to come across the border and work the cane fields. That sure does sound familiar though.

 

[mountainannie]

It was via him that I discovered the fantastic fictional trilogy of Madison Smartt Bell about Toussaint and the revolution (All Souls Rising, Master of the Crossroads and The Stone That The Builder Refused). Here are the cut chapters for the first of those books:

"All Souls Rising," The Writer's Cut

Oh- Thank you SO Much for posting, NS! This was another gem left in Sto. Dom! I had not even read it yet! But I have now ordered the Kindle.. Madison Smart Bell was on the Corbett list for years when I was there - and EVERYONE- Haitian and American- was SO IN AWE of his work! I see that this particular book was both a National Book Award & Pen Faulkner finalist - which the top 2 US literary prizes! It promises to be a true delight..

 

[Naked_Snake]

Oh- Thank you SO Much for posting, NS! This was another gem left in Sto. Dom! I had not even read it yet! But I have now ordered the Kindle.. Madison Smart Bell was on the Corbett list for years when I was there - and EVERYONE- Haitian and American- was SO IN AWE of his work! I see that this particular book was both a National Book Award & Pen Faulkner finalist - which the top 2 US literary prizes! It promises to be a true delight..

Oh it will, believe me. You will find fascinating the character of "le marron inconnu", Riau, one of Toussaint's many godsons. With him, Bell captured the psychology driving the average maroon fantastically.

 

[mountainannie]

Oh it will, believe me. You will find fascinating the character of "le marron inconnu", Riau, one of Toussaint's many godsons. With him, Bell captured the psychology driving the average maroon fantastically.

I have Deibert's last book on Haiti -https://www.zedbooks.net/shop/book/haiti-will-not-perish/- sitting on my bedside table - but not sure that I HAVE to read it. I had to BUY it, of course, since he is a friend. As another friend observed "I have discovered that buying books and reading books are two separate hobbies." And then there is the one by Paul Thereoux that I have not finished.... etc... etc... etc...

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

wrong again as usual!!, on so many fronts. Stick to union matters at the N.J bus drivers transit association. You know less about Haiti than anyone. Never even entered but yet you are an expert. Actually, as pointed out previously, aren't you an expert on every subject matter. lol

 

[windeguy]

Traveled to Haiti several times as well, 8 years ago for my company. I am not a journalist, but a realist and a capitalist. Making excuses and blaming others is not my game plan, but hey like you say that's my opinion. Throw all the money at that quagmire I say , just as long as it ain't mine. Just curious, is French Creole even a marketable language?

I ask the same question about Quebecois.

Now back to the issue that seems to be mired in the quagmire of former slavery and perpetuates into infinity and beyond for this failed state.

Yourmaninvegas really is in need of a history lesson on how Haiti started.

 

[mountainannie]

I ask the same question about Quebecois.

Now back to the issue that seems to be mired in the quagmire of former slavery and perpetuates into infinity and beyond for this failed state.

Yourmaninvegas really is in need of a history lesson on how Haiti started.

My personal opinion is that things would be so very much more pleasant on this board if you men would stop slinging rocks and barbs at one another.
jEveryone is entitled to their own opinions. No one has a corner on the truth. And While I Myself Have Most Certainly Been Guilty of an "I Know More Than You Do About Haiti" attitude, and have reacted sharply when I felt I was being personally attacked, I would not like the Board to return to the Bad Old Days of the Off-Topic US Politics thread.
just sayin'

 

[mountainannie]

Oh it will, believe me. You will find fascinating the character of "le marron inconnu", Riau, one of Toussaint's many godsons. With him, Bell captured the psychology driving the average maroon fantastically.

I read the first two chapters - Great Writing - really amazing.. But Such A Very Painful Story... Brings out the same sensations of when I had to read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" which was assigned - but I never had the heart to read again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom's_Cabin

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

My personal opinion is that things would be so very much more pleasant on this board if you men would stop slinging rocks and barbs at one another.
jEveryone is entitled to their own opinions. No one has a corner on the truth. And While I Myself Have Most Certainly Been Guilty of an "I Know More Than You Do About Haiti" attitude, and have reacted sharply when I felt I was being personally attacked, I would not like the Board to return to the Bad Old Days of the Off-Topic US Politics thread.
just sayin'

Yes, but some just cannot help themselves.

I ask the same question about Quebecois.

Now back to the issue that seems to be mired in the quagmire of former slavery and perpetuates into infinity and beyond for this failed state.

Yourmaninvegas really is in need of a history lesson on how Haiti started.

I have read history books and articles on how Haiti got started.
I have also used the internet to research the issue.
You want to teach me HIS_Story ❓