Jovenel Moïse is a dictator at this point...

Yourmaninvegas

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Yes the culture of "please save us from ourselves" ," it's the rich people's fault" has plagued the entire country. They will be waiting around for handouts from the red cross and habitat for humanity for decades. They have much company. Many countries and people blame others for their failures. Except other countries in the Caribbean.
Revisionist HIS-story if I ever read it.
The people of Haiti paid back the French for revolting with the support of other slave holding nations backing them up.
Hardly a group of people claiming it is the "rich people's fault".
Clearly the path of history would have been different if the country had of been allowed join the economic world system right off the bat.
 

Big

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Revisionist HIS-story if I ever read it.
The people of Haiti paid back the French for revolting with the support of other slave holding nations backing them up.
Hardly a group of people claiming it is the "rich people's fault".
Clearly the path of history would have been different if the country had of been allowed join the economic world system right off the bat.
Haiti is a lost cause at least for the next 25 years. Even if gold was discovered on their side like it has been in the D.R which has massive gold reserves, it would not trickle down to anyone except for a few shady political clowns.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Haiti is a lost cause at least for the next 25 years. Even if gold was discovered on their side like it has been in the D.R which has massive gold reserves, it would not trickle down to anyone except for a few shady political clowns.
I respect your opinion.
At least you are not stating it a fact as others have posting up in here.
Does not change HIS-story.
And I do not agree that Haiti is a complete lost cause.
But that is my opinion.
 

Fulano2

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Haiti is a lost cause at least for the next 25 years. Even if gold was discovered on their side like it has been in the D.R which has massive gold reserves, it would not trickle down to anyone except for a few shady political clowns.
No offense but if they would discover gold they would call the Chinese rightaway to see if they could help them out.
 

mountainannie

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Annie,
Where does this file say it was the “richest and most productive colony of the world in the 1800”? Where are the Numbers comparing with Indonesia, a country 200 times bigger, or India..
Fulano-- I thought your question was on Where are the 1800 Stats on Haiti- which was the question that I tried to answer. I know absolutely NOTHING about Indonesia. I was in Holland once and ate some sort of interesting Indonesian food.. but that is about it. So I would certainly not be comparing anything in THIS hemisphere to anything in THAT hemisphere - about which, as I said - I know about - zilch.
 
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mountainannie

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Fulano2

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Fulano-- I thought your question was on Where are the 1800 Stats on Haiti- which was the question that I tried to answer. I know absolutely NOTHING about Indonesia. I was in Holland once and ate some sort of interesting Indonesian food.. but that is about it. So I would certainly not be comparing anything in THIS hemisphere to anything in THAT hemisphere - about which, as I said - I know about - zilch.
Thanks. When someone states that Haiti was the richest and most productive colony in the 1800 in the world, you must compare. Don’t you agree? I assume you know there were many colonies at that time. Indonesia, India, many African lands with gold, diamonds.
So, where are the numbers to compare?
 

Naked_Snake

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Thanks. When someone states that Haiti was the richest and most productive colony in the 1800 in the world, you must compare. Don’t you agree? I assume you know there were many colonies at that time. Indonesia, India, many African lands with gold, diamonds.
So, where are the numbers to compare?
I said the XVIIIth century (which last I saw, goes from 1700-1799, and for the case of Saint-Domingue, goes from 1697-1791, the latter being the year of the revolution and in which it was smashed), don't you know how to read comprehensively? Anyway, here are some select numbers for the last year in which they were at an all time high (1789) for some selected articles:

Clayed sugar: 47,516,531 pounds exported.
Muscovado sugar: 93,573,300 " "
Coffee: 76,835,219

Source: Statista
 

NALs

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I said the XVIIIth century (which last I saw, goes from 1700-1799, and for the case of Saint-Domingue, goes from 1697-1791, the latter being the year of the revolution and in which it was smashed), don't you know how to read comprehensively? Anyway, here are some select numbers for the last year in which they were at an all time high (1789) for some selected articles:

Clayed sugar: 47,516,531 pounds exported.
Muscovado sugar: 93,573,300 " "
Coffee: 76,835,219

Source: Statista
Those types of statistics are in the appendix of several historical books I have on Haiti and that touch Haiti. I'll check if they belong to Saint-Domingue or Haiti.
 
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Naked_Snake

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Those types of statistics are in the appendix of several historical books I have on Haiti and that touch Haiti. I'll check if they belong to Saint-Domingue or Haiti.
Please do so and bring the rest here. Somehow mr. Fulano still doubts the brilliance and importance of colonial Haiti/Saint-Domingue despite the many proofs (online and otherwise) detailing their protagonism in New World colonial commerce. That's what makes their fall most spectacular, since independent Haiti practically inaugurated the Third World properly speaking after being on such commanding heights.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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"Compared to the political history, the economic history of Haiti is relatively simple. The original economic basis for the Spanish colonies on Hispaniola was sugar plantations. The French continued the sugar economy and introduced coffee. There were other plantation crops grown such as cotton and cacao for chocolate but it was sugar and coffee that were the most important. Under the French plantation system, based upon slave labor, Haiti was an enormously profitable operation. The Haitian sugar economy was in competition with the northeast region of Brazil, which previously had been the major source of sugar for Europe. The French sugar and coffee operations in Haiti were so productive that its exports to Europe were comparable and perhaps exceeded the total exports of the British North American colonies.
After the battles associated with independence there was some attempts to retain the large scale plantation agriculture of the colonial period but that effort was doomed. Land was distributed into small scale farms but these units devoted only a fraction of their resources to growing export crops like sugar and coffee. Often the output is consumed domestically and there are no exports of sugar or coffee."

 

mountainannie

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Thanks. When someone states that Haiti was the richest and most productive colony in the 1800 in the world, you must compare. Don’t you agree? I assume you know there were many colonies at that time. Indonesia, India, many African lands with gold, diamonds.
So, where are the numbers to compare?
I thought I said "in the hemisphere" - If I didn't phrase it that way, my bad. It was the richest and most productive colony in this hemisphere.
 

mountainannie

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I had heard that Haiti was the source of the vetiver oil that is the basis of French perfume - but evidently it was brought there from the French Reunion island -- fairly recently - But then then not so sure the author of this article has a firm grip on the history, either. Baby Doc didn't leave til 1986- but I guess "during" covers it..


..."Vetiver was originally grown in Haiti in the 1940s for its deep roots, which serve as an anchor in the dry soil of erosion-prone hillsides in the southwest, and for thatching roofs. The country is now the world’s top source of vetiver, having replaced the French Reunion Islands in the Indian Ocean.

Production of the plant collapsed in the late 1960s during the three-decade-long dictatorship of Francois and Jean-Claude Duvalier (“Papa Doc” and “Baby Doc”). A state export monopoly bought from distillers at a fixed price, then sold the oil to brokers in New York and kept the profit.


Pierre Léger, a Dutch-trained Haitian agronomist, revived vetiver farming in the 1980s after Baby Doc, shaken after an anti-government protest in Les Cayes, ordered him to do so at gunpoint.

“It’s a miracle plant,” said Léger, 66, owner of Agri-Supply. “You dig it up, cut off the roots, plant it right back and it produces again next year. It needs no irrigation or fertilizer.” "...
 

Naked_Snake

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I thought I said "in the hemisphere" - If I didn't phrase it that way, my bad. It was the richest and most productive colony in this hemisphere.
Adam Smith said so:

qHDcNa.jpg
 

Naked_Snake

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My understanding - and from what source I can not quote (Since all my reference books are now at FUNGLODE!) that the export production of Haiti exceeded that of the 13 US original colonies.
Yep. To give the complete image, the center of economical gravity in British America at the time wasn't in New England or the Middle Atlantic colonies (New York, Pennsylvania et al), but rather, it was in Virginia, Carolina, Georgia and the Caribbean islands (Jamaica and Barbados). Saint-Domingue outperformed them all, as far as agrarian produce went, amount of slaves per colonist or even purchasing power of the leading classes.
 
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NALs

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Ironically, the first appears in the following book "Idea del valor de la Isla Española, y utilidades que de ella puede sacar su monarquía" by Antonio Sánchez Valverde in 1785. I say ironically, because 99% of the book has nothing to do with that side of the island. lol

I'm not going to translate all of this word for word, but he cites a Mr Weuves, a French colonist in Saint-Domingue, of his writings about the production of Saint-Domingue at that time. It's written in the Spanish from that era, before the written aspect of the Spanish language was standardized. So some words are written different from today.

P. 133


P. 134; the sentences with the quotes are citations from Mr Weuves book.


Translated from the citation part in page 134, Saint-Domingue accounted for:

- 66% of the merchant boats of France.
- Produces demand for at least 25% of France's factories.
- Forms most of the French Marines.
- In 1776 the five ports of Saint-Domingue received 353 boats from France.

At that moment, Saint-Domingue had:

- 723 sugar mills thst in 1773 produced 240 million of white and brown sugar.
- Large amount of coffee estates thst produced 84 million
- Cotton: 4 million
- Indigo: 150,000 lbs
- Cacao: 150,000 lbs
- 30,000 barrels of syrup (doesn't say what kind)
- 15,000 of tapia (a type of rum)

In addition to this, the sixth part of its total production is contraband.

P. 135


Saint-Domingue's production is what animates the trade of all the other nations.

Around 400 French boats arrive at its ports every year and about 100 boats from other European and from the Americas ports.

P. 136


French government grants duty free 15 lbs for each [blacks] head bought in "Cabo Negro" (has to be somewhere in the northwestern coast of Africa) and the "Cape of Good Hope" (still named like that in modern South Africa, I don't think this produced much for Saint-Domingue).

P. 137


Under the table it says "with no exaggeration, the French nation produces more from its colony in that island than Spain's colonies which spans an entire continent."

---

Except for this one, I have found tables on the productions of Haiti as a country in various times in the 1800's, but not of Saint-Domingue. I'll check the other books tomorrow and whatever I find I'll post it here. Apparently, I will be checking Dominican books too. As this one proves, you never know what you will find. lol
 
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